I've felt before that compilers often don't put much effort into optimizing the "trivial" cases.
Overly dramatic title for the content, though. I would have clicked "Async Rust Optimizations the Compiler Still Misses" too you know","time":1777967499,"type":"comment"},{"by":"groundzeros2015","id":48019420,"kids":[48019594,48019538,48019470,48019514,48019543],"parent":48019163,"text":"Async seems like an underbaked idea across the board. Regular code was already async. When you need to wait for an async operation, the thread sleeps until ready and the kernel abstracts it away. But We didn’t like structuring code into logical threads, so we added callback systems for events. Then realized callbacks are very hard to reason about and that sequential control is better.
So threads was the right programming model.
Now language runtimes prefer “green threads” for portability and performance but most languages don’t provide that properly. Instead we have awkward coloring of async/non-async and all these problems around scheduling, priority, and no-preemption. It’s a worse scheduling and process model than 1970.","time":1777968632,"type":"comment"},{"by":"hacker_homie","id":48019535,"parent":48019163,"text":"This is the type of ugly but necessary discussions that have been happening in c++ for a while.
I never really liked the viral nature of async in rust when it was introduced.
I wish rust the best of luck and with more people like this rust could have a brighter future.","time":1777969469,"type":"comment"},{"by":"slopinthebag","id":48019511,"kids":[48019565],"parent":48019163,"text":"It's so funny that people will do anything to hate on Rust, including nitpicking a few bytes of overhead for a future while they reach for an entire thread or runtime to handle async in their favourite language.","time":1777969223,"type":"comment"}]},{"by":"john-doe","descendants":44,"id":48019219,"kids":[48019542,48019499,48019555,48019573,48019505,48019456,48019508,48019448,48019427,48019500,48019444,48019552,48019572,48019460,48019533,48019495,48019492,48019289],"score":70,"time":1777966495,"title":"Google Chrome silently installs a 4 GB AI model on your device without consent","type":"story","url":"https://www.thatprivacyguy.com/blog/chrome-silent-nano-install/","comments":[{"by":"scriptsmith","id":48019542,"parent":48019219,"text":"If Chrome has the #optimization-guide-on-device-model and #prompt-api-for-gemini-nano flags enabled, either because it's part of some Origin Trial / Early Stable Release or something, then web pages will have access to the new Prompt API which allows any webpage to download the ~2.7 GiB CPU or ~4.0 GiB GPU model using LanguageModel.create()
https://developer.chrome.com/docs/ai/prompt-api
When Chrome 148 releases tomorrow, this will be the default behaviour on desktop","time":1777969562,"type":"comment"},{"by":"TheServitor","id":48019499,"kids":[48019577],"parent":48019219,"text":"Framing 4GB of data moving in a world of petabytes of traffic as a specific environmental disaster is kind of a stretch, regardless of whether we want the model.","time":1777969176,"type":"comment"},{"by":"flossly","id":48019555,"parent":48019219,"text":"And that's why we have, promote, and (hopefully) all use Chromium on our Linuxes.
Or Firefox of course.","time":1777969667,"type":"comment"},{"by":"elashri","id":48019573,"parent":48019219,"text":"The solution is pretty simple. Visit this wonderful website [1] and there will be nice download button which you can click.
[1] https://www.firefox.com","time":1777969763,"type":"comment"},{"by":"pezgrande","id":48019505,"parent":48019219,"text":"If anything I am glad a bit of shift to local llm's. Their gemma4 is pretty powerful for such small model so I guess that's what they are delivering.","time":1777969191,"type":"comment"},{"by":"dotcoma","id":48019456,"kids":[48019580,48019561,48019464,48019496,48019498,48019583],"parent":48019219,"text":"Why use a browser from Google or Microsoft in 2026? Why in the world?","time":1777968904,"type":"comment"},{"by":"jbub","id":48019508,"parent":48019219,"text":"https://archive.ph/vhTfm","time":1777969195,"type":"comment"},{"by":"jacquesm","id":48019448,"kids":[48019472],"parent":48019219,"text":"Not on my devices. Auto update has been abused so often now that it is an embarrassment to the industry. Auto update should be for bug fixes and security issues only.","time":1777968877,"type":"comment"},{"by":"ponyous","id":48019427,"kids":[48019468,48019434,48019465],"parent":48019219,"text":"The site is currently unavailable 503 so I can't read it. But I wonder, what should you consent to? Every dependency? Every dependency above 1GB?","time":1777968686,"type":"comment"},{"by":"jve","id":48019500,"kids":[48019521,48019547,48019525],"parent":48019219,"text":"> At Chrome's scale, the climate bill for one model push, paid in atmospheric CO2 by the entire planet, is between six thousand and sixty thousand tonnes of CO2-equivalent emissions, depending on how many devices receive the push.
Environmental analysis for operations? Not a fan of thinking in such terms.
> For users on capped mobile data plans, particularly in regions where smartphone-as-only-internet is dominant (much of Africa, much of South and Southeast Asia, most of Latin America), 4 GB of unrequested download is on the order of a month's data allowance, vapourised by Chrome on the user's behalf. Google has not, to my knowledge, published any analysis of the welfare impact of this on the populations whose internet access is metered.
THIS is a valid concern. Otherwise I'm not buying into "ask for consent because of dependency X". Users don't like questions/consents.
However OS (at least windows) has an way to set network connection as a metered so software can make informed decisions. Also Android has "Data Saver" function which should also be honored by software.","time":1777969177,"type":"comment"},{"by":"tdeck","id":48019444,"parent":48019219,"text":"Somebody's promotion packet depended on pushing this through the approval process.","time":1777968852,"type":"comment"},{"by":"lobito25","id":48019552,"parent":48019219,"text":"Anyone, voluntarily installing a spy browser like Google Chrome on their devices, deserves this and much more.","time":1777969643,"type":"comment"},{"by":"Hamuko","id":48019572,"parent":48019219,"text":"This has to be some kind of a limited rollout, since none of my machines have this AI model installed even when Chrome is updated to the latest version. No indication that anything is being downloaded, since after updating to the latest version of Chrome on this machine, I'm seeing <100 kB/s download speeds for the entire system.","time":1777969756,"type":"comment"},{"by":"DineshKruplani","id":48019460,"parent":48019219,"text":"it's so absurd at this point. isn't chrome already so much abused.","time":1777968939,"type":"comment"},{"by":"walletdrainer","id":48019533,"parent":48019219,"text":"> Google has not, to my knowledge, published any analysis of the welfare impact of this on the populations whose internet access is metered.
This is satire, obviously.","time":1777969439,"type":"comment"},{"by":"cubefox","id":48019495,"parent":48019219,"text":"I thought using local rather than cloud AI was pretty universally agreed to be good?","time":1777969148,"type":"comment"},{"by":"flanked-evergl","id":48019492,"kids":[48019529],"parent":48019219,"text":"This is a bit disingenuous. If you install Chrome, you install Chrome and all it's parts. They don't ask your consent for individual parts because that would be absurd. If you don't want Chrome and all its parts, don't use it.","time":1777969121,"type":"comment"},{"by":"lena_vibe","dead":true,"id":48019289,"parent":48019219,"text":"[flagged]","time":1777967229,"type":"comment"}]},{"by":"kristianpaul","descendants":22,"id":48017948,"kids":[48018371,48019117,48018730,48019186,48019095,48018926,48019083,48018552,48019347,48018206,48018422,48019271,48019264],"score":197,"time":1777954157,"title":"Train Your Own LLM from Scratch","type":"story","url":"https://github.com/angelos-p/llm-from-scratch","comments":[{"by":"jvican","id":48018371,"kids":[48018475],"parent":48017948,"text":"If you're interested in this resource, I highly recommend checking out Stanford's CS336 class. It covers all this curriculum in a lot more depth, introduces you into a lot of theoretical aspects (scaling laws, intuitions) and systems thinking (kernel optimization/profiling). For this, you have to do the assignments, of course... https://cs336.stanford.edu/","time":1777958528,"type":"comment"},{"by":"JoeDaDude","id":48019117,"parent":48017948,"text":"Coincidentally, I just started on Build a Large Language Model (From Scratch), a repo/book/course by Sebastian Raschka [0][1][2]. Maybe it is a good problem to have to have to decide which learning resource to use.
[0] https://github.com/rasbt/LLMs-from-scratch
[1] https://www.manning.com/books/build-a-large-language-model-f...
[2] https://magazine.sebastianraschka.com/p/coding-llms-from-the...","time":1777965494,"type":"comment"},{"by":"NSUserDefaults","id":48018730,"kids":[48019269],"parent":48017948,"text":"Been doing it since the day I was born. The beginnings were hard but I’m getting there.","time":1777961814,"type":"comment"},{"by":"kriro","id":48019186,"parent":48017948,"text":"I did it back in the day when fast.ai was relatively new with ULMFiT. This must have been when Bert was sota. The architecture allows you to train a base and specialize with a head. I used the entire Wikipedia for the base and then some GBs of tweets I had collected through the firehouse. I had access to a lab with 20 game dev computers. Must have been roughly GTX 2080s. One training cycle took about half a day for the tokenized Wikipedia so I hyper parameter tuned by running one different setting on each computer and then moving on with the winner as the starting point for the next day. It was always fun to come to work the next morning and check the results.
The engineering was horrible and very ad-hoc but I learned a lot. Results were ok-ish (I classified tweets) but it gave me a good perspective on the sheer GPU power (and engineering challenges) one would need to do this seriously. I didn't fully grasp the potential of generating output but spent quite some time chuckling at generated tweets (was just curious to try it).","time":1777966237,"type":"comment"},{"by":"antirez","id":48019095,"parent":48017948,"text":"Context: he is one of the MLX developers, a skilled ML researcher.","time":1777965390,"type":"comment"},{"by":"ofsen","id":48018926,"parent":48017948,"text":"This looks like exact copy of this video of andrej karpathy ( https://youtu.be/kCc8FmEb1nY ) but in a writing format, am i wrong ?","time":1777963593,"type":"comment"},{"by":"steveharing1","id":48019083,"parent":48017948,"text":"The documentation is really helpful enough to get started","time":1777965330,"type":"comment"},{"by":"hiroakiaizawa","id":48018552,"kids":[48019020,48018890],"parent":48017948,"text":"Nice. What scale does this realistically reach on a single machine?","time":1777960116,"type":"comment"},{"by":"yjaspar","id":48019347,"parent":48017948,"text":"That’s actually super interesting","time":1777967932,"type":"comment"},{"by":"iamnotarobotman","id":48018206,"parent":48017948,"text":"This looks great for a first introduction to training LLMs, and it looks simple enough to try this locally. Great job!","time":1777956948,"type":"comment"},{"by":"baalimago","id":48018422,"kids":[48018661,48018582],"parent":48017948,"text":"Train your LM from scratch*
I doubt you have a machine big enough to make it "Large".","time":1777958932,"type":"comment"},{"deleted":true,"id":48019271,"parent":48017948,"time":1777967018,"type":"comment"},{"by":"flowdesktech","dead":true,"id":48019264,"parent":48017948,"text":"[flagged]","time":1777966946,"type":"comment"}]},{"by":"jollyjerry","descendants":8,"id":48017907,"kids":[48018771,48019333,48019430,48019112,48019257],"score":76,"time":1777953721,"title":"Hand Drawn QR Codes","type":"story","url":"https://sethmlarson.dev/hand-drawn-qr-codes","comments":[{"by":"keane","id":48018771,"parent":48017907,"text":"From the update: "Why are QR Codes with capital letters smaller than QR codes with lower-case letters?" https://shkspr.mobi/blog/2025/02/why-are-qr-codes-with-capit... (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43149077)","time":1777962316,"type":"comment"},{"by":"notTooFarGone","id":48019333,"kids":[48019579],"parent":48017907,"text":"If someone needs a gift idea:
I used something like this on a large sheet and cut it into pieces for a puzzle gift to a website where people left comments. Nowadays even easier to generate nice temporary websites for such things.","time":1777967792,"type":"comment"},{"by":"jdranczewski","id":48019430,"parent":48017907,"text":"I've really enjoyed reading the Grid World piece linked at the bottom of the post: https://alex.miller.garden/grid-world/","time":1777968706,"type":"comment"},{"by":"larsbrinkhoff","id":48019112,"kids":[48019130],"parent":48017907,"text":"I hand drew this on a whiteboard. It was a lot more work than I anticipated.
http://lars.nocrew.org/tmp/qr.png","time":1777965461,"type":"comment"},{"by":"karel-3d","id":48019257,"kids":[48019327],"parent":48017907,"text":"One time I tried to understand the QR algorithm and I didn't understand it at all despite trying multiple times.
Maybe I can try again with the help of LLMs. Hmm not a bad idea","time":1777966892,"type":"comment"}]},{"by":"SergeAx","descendants":326,"id":48016880,"kids":[48019226,48017005,48017358,48017309,48017447,48019067,48019019,48017505,48017204,48019266,48018523,48019180,48017077,48018742,48016982,48017288,48017769,48017221,48016990,48017308,48017464,48018216,48017485,48019084,48019310,48017460,48019168,48016978,48017634,48017823,48017705,48017228,48019075,48018058,48019232,48019056,48017886,48017520,48018277,48017387,48017944,48017899,48019007,48017498,48017991,48017407,48017419,48018539,48017723,48018426,48017039,48017667,48018386,48017637,48019062,48017335,48017079,48017224,48017934,48017054,48018092,48017040,48018547,48017788,48019031,48017552,48017559,48017729,48017258,48017385,48017946],"score":463,"time":1777943297,"title":"Bun is being ported from Zig to Rust","type":"story","url":"https://github.com/oven-sh/bun/commit/46d3bc29f270fa881dd5730ef1549e88407701a5","comments":[{"by":"Jarred","id":48019226,"kids":[48019311,48019294],"parent":48016880,"text":"I work on Bun and this is my branch
This whole thread is an overreaction. 302 comments about code that does not work. We haven’t committed to rewriting. There’s a very high chance all this code gets thrown out completely.
I’m curious to see what a working version of this looks, what it feels like, how it performs and if/how hard it’d be to get it to pass Bun’s test suite and be maintainable. I’d like to be able to compare a viable Rust version and a Zig version side by side.","time":1777966611,"type":"comment"},{"by":"stingraycharles","id":48017005,"kids":[48017510,48017482,48017086,48017037,48017074,48018761,48018394,48017960,48017342,48017052,48017035],"parent":48016880,"text":"Interesting to see this when the current top post on HN is someone worrying about Bun as it was acquired by Anthropic. The top comment there describes “Anthropic does experiments on their own codebase, the Bun team is not gonna do the same vibe coding experiments”.
Yet here we are, what looks like a massive undertaking for vibe coding.
Time will tell how this will turn out. Would be nice if the Bun maintainers could give some clarification about what they’re doing here, and why they’re doing this.","time":1777944521,"type":"comment"},{"by":"kgeist","id":48017358,"kids":[48018500],"parent":48016880,"text":"Interesting how times have changed. Back in 2015, the entire Go runtime (already a mature codebase) was rewritten from C to Go semi-automatically: one of the maintainers wrote a C-to-Go conversion tool (for a subset of C they used) so that it compiled and produced identical output, and then the resulting code was manually refactored to make the Go code more idiomatic and optimized. And now you can just ask a language model.
The slides:\nhttps://go.dev/talks/2015/gogo.slide#3
An interesting similarity:
>We had our own C compiler just to compile the runtime.
The Bun team maintain their own fork of Zig too","time":1777947391,"type":"comment"},{"by":"archargelod","id":48017309,"kids":[48018032],"parent":48016880,"text":"Linked commit is probably not the most convincing for this tagline. Here's a branch[0] of Claude mass rewriting Zig code into Rust which is currently at 773,950 additions and 151 deletions:
[0]: https://github.com/oven-sh/bun/compare/claude/phase-a-port","time":1777946993,"type":"comment"},{"by":"hsaliak","id":48017447,"kids":[48017529],"parent":48016880,"text":"The problem with vibe coded re-writes is that you basically sign off on understanding the generated codebase at that point. Any historical knowledge of the codebase is gone.","time":1777948258,"type":"comment"},{"by":"carpenecopinum","id":48019067,"parent":48016880,"text":"Given the recent gripe that Bun/Anthropic indicated regarding compile times with Zig (i.e. that their vibe-coded 4x compilation speedup PR wasn't accepted), it appears to me as an "interesting" move to switch to a language that probably delivers 4x longer compilations than even vanilla Zig.","time":1777965169,"type":"comment"},{"by":"selectnull","id":48019019,"kids":[48019078,48019206],"parent":48016880,"text":"Why not rewrite claude-code in Rust?
So, Anthropic acquires Bun team because claude-code uses Bun. They port Bun from Zig to Rust presumably because Rust "is better" (imagine big air quotes here). Again presumably, they want to make claude-code "better". Why make it so complicated? With all the power of LLMs they have, surely they can make claude-code the best possible by writting it in Rust directly.","time":1777964636,"type":"comment"},{"by":"tacitusarc","id":48017505,"kids":[48017673,48018511,48017561],"parent":48016880,"text":"I wonder if a successful, albeit slower, approach would be to walk the git commit history in lockstep, applying the behavioral intent behind each commit. If they did this, I would be interested in knowing if they were able to skip certain bug fix commits because the Rust implementation sidestepped the problem.","time":1777948915,"type":"comment"},{"by":"jr-14","id":48017204,"parent":48016880,"text":"I want zig to succeed but given that zig is not yet 1.x I'd imagine a large code base like bun would have difficulties addressing major breaking changes. Also given the fact that bun is using a fork of zig https://x.com/bunjavascript/status/2048427636414923250?s=20","time":1777946146,"type":"comment"},{"by":"jvidalv","id":48019266,"parent":48016880,"text":"Bun can't be used for anything serious, only as a "script kiddie" to run small scripts.
Trying to run it as a replacement for node in persistent backend/api scenarios is just plain broken.
RSS grows unbounded under Bun: https://discord.com/channels/876711213126520882/148058965798...","time":1777966952,"type":"comment"},{"by":"padjo","id":48018523,"kids":[48019331],"parent":48016880,"text":"Picking a pre 1.0 language to build your product always seemed like a bad choice to me. Purely on that basis and ignoring the recent drama this seems like a reasonable idea for tech debt pay down to me. Assuming automated conversion can work without making things worse, which is not exactly a given.","time":1777959827,"type":"comment"},{"deleted":true,"id":48019180,"parent":48016880,"time":1777966175,"type":"comment"},{"by":"Humphrey","id":48017077,"kids":[48019138,48018799,48017622],"parent":48016880,"text":"I'll be very interested in how this AI port turns out. I am involved in a number of active projects that are being held back by the language / framework is holding back the project, but where a rewrite would be too big of a project to undertake by using only human power.
I've had more success vibe coding Rust than I have in more dynamic languages. I suspect the strictness of the Rust compiler forces the AI agent to produce better code. Not sure. It could be just that I am less familiar with Rust so it feels like it's doing a better job.","time":1777945062,"type":"comment"},{"by":"rollulus","id":48018742,"kids":[48018854],"parent":48016880,"text":"Rewriting it using an LLM is one. But did all the contributors became as proficient in Rust as they were in Zig over night as well?","time":1777961930,"type":"comment"},{"by":"yladiz","id":48016982,"kids":[48017041,48017048,48017033,48017253,48017148],"parent":48016880,"text":"Why? Are there particular reasons that the maintainers of Bun feel the need to attempt to migrate from Zig to Rust?","time":1777944328,"type":"comment"},{"by":"hbbio","id":48017288,"parent":48016880,"text":"Given they have "unlimited" AI usage, do we expect the port to be complete tomorrow?","time":1777946800,"type":"comment"},{"by":"wg0","id":48017769,"parent":48016880,"text":"If nothing, it'll be good marketing material targeted at non-technical enterprise executives so that they pressurize their engineering teams in meetings that look people are porting such complicated things from one different language to totally different language then why are we not using AI effectively?!","time":1777951986,"type":"comment"},{"by":"elffjs","id":48017221,"kids":[48019155],"parent":48016880,"text":"Comparing this claude/phase-a-port branch with main: “Showing 1,646 changed files with 773,950 additions and 151 deletions.”","time":1777946283,"type":"comment"},{"by":"inkysigma","id":48016990,"kids":[48019071],"parent":48016880,"text":"So I can't tell if the linked commit is an actual attempt or just an experiment but it did always strike me as odd to make a JS runtime in Zig when my impression was there were a lot of work-stopping compiler bugs at the time.","time":1777944403,"type":"comment"},{"by":"thayne","id":48017308,"parent":48016880,"text":"When I first heard that bun was written in zig, I thought that was an odd choice for such a large project, mostly because the language is "unstable" and is still making significant breaking changes.
I would guess dealing with breaking changes is a big motivation for this.","time":1777946985,"type":"comment"},{"by":"cropcirclbureau","id":48017464,"kids":[48017564],"parent":48016880,"text":"The only Bun shipped product I've used in anger is OpenCode and I regularly run into segfaults on it. I doubt this is the reason for migration but every time it happens, it reminds me the real cost of unsafe code. That being said, Zig is an absolute pleasure to write and I can't wait until it has a real library ecosystem, Rust's greatest boon.","time":1777948415,"type":"comment"},{"by":"bijowo1676","id":48018216,"kids":[48019161,48018901],"parent":48016880,"text":"Its never been easier to rewrite X in Rust than today.
Will everything eventually be rewritten in Rust and we finally achieve utopia?","time":1777957022,"type":"comment"},{"by":"toledocavani","id":48017485,"parent":48016880,"text":"For better or for worse, at least Bun is open source, and the world is not lacking a NodeJS alternative.
What is the most interesting here for me is:
- a big, clear outcome and acceptance criteria, vibe coding project on
- a public, working, high performance, full featured, production codebase by
- the leading LLM model maker known for the strongest coding ability
A good example no matter if it successes or not.","time":1777948718,"type":"comment"},{"by":"croemer","id":48019084,"parent":48016880,"text":"At this point, it looks just like an experiment. It's not a definitive "were going to switch".
I think people here are reading too much into it.","time":1777965340,"type":"comment"},{"by":"born-jre","id":48019310,"parent":48016880,"text":"Let the guy cook, would be nice benchmark of llm nothing else. Damn I wish I had access to infinite tokens for crazy experiments like this.","time":1777967374,"type":"comment"},{"by":"anymouse123456","id":48017460,"kids":[48017678],"parent":48016880,"text":"This is a huge loss for the zig language and community.
As a fan of the language, I hope it leads to some reflection on things that might need to change moving forward.","time":1777948369,"type":"comment"},{"by":"holysantamaria","id":48019168,"parent":48016880,"text":"Maybe Mythos told them to quit using zig because it is not safe","time":1777966006,"type":"comment"},{"by":"heldrida","id":48016978,"parent":48016880,"text":"I suspect that an experiment is being run. In any case, that'll be a hell of a story!","time":1777944271,"type":"comment"},{"by":"classicposter","id":48017634,"kids":[48017714],"parent":48016880,"text":"https://github.com/oven-sh/bun/issues/30197
It seems there was an issue where the image API ignored the ICC Profile.(now fixed)\nAny developer with experience implementing image formats would almost certainly avoid this mistake. This is a problem that cannot be solved with vibe coding. In this situation, the user is merely a guinea pig for bug fixes.","time":1777950481,"type":"comment"},{"by":"thatxliner","id":48017823,"parent":48016880,"text":"Didn't they write a whole blog post on why they chose Zig over Rust?","time":1777952725,"type":"comment"},{"by":"classicposter","id":48017705,"kids":[48017775],"parent":48016880,"text":"https://x.com/bunjavascript/status/1966806250827714736
Haha, is it really okay not to retract that that the official account previously posted a caricature criticizing Rust?","time":1777951303,"type":"comment"},{"by":"arthurcolle","id":48017228,"parent":48016880,"text":"Could just be an experiment or something. It's Monday, the week is young","time":1777946329,"type":"comment"},{"by":"kadhirvelm","id":48019075,"parent":48016880,"text":"I can't imagine going from reviewing code in Zig to letting Claude code handle it in Rust. Seems like a lot of change to deal with in a short amount of time. Wonder how much the bun team culture will change? We've been really liking bun so far","time":1777965276,"type":"comment"},{"by":"davidtranjs","id":48018058,"parent":48016880,"text":"this isn't vibe coding. this is vibe rewriting. ~500k lines of code. nobody is reading those diffs line by line. nobody.","time":1777955503,"type":"comment"},{"by":"_pdp_","id":48019232,"parent":48016880,"text":"Claude Mythos cannot do the porting?","time":1777966626,"type":"comment"},{"by":"kandros","id":48019056,"parent":48016880,"text":"Unexpected, I was waiting for them to maintain a zig fork","time":1777965055,"type":"comment"},{"by":"ngoquocdat","id":48017886,"parent":48016880,"text":"I think they are simply experimenting to fully exploit Claude's models' powerful capabilities.","time":1777953486,"type":"comment"},{"by":"notnullorvoid","id":48017520,"parent":48016880,"text":"Probably a good thing for the project even if the only net positive ends up being the Bun team stops maintaining a fork of Zig.","time":1777949095,"type":"comment"},{"by":"apatheticonion","id":48018277,"parent":48016880,"text":"Having written a JavaScript runtime in Rust in the past - Rust is an excellent choice. Not just due to the development experience, but also for embedders who want to consume the project as a a library (rather than a binary, e.g. node).
Not sure about vibe-coding it. While they aren't using v8, LLMs made it easier to understand v8 quirks and update v8 as they make weird changes every now and then. It couldn't write the runtime without help though.
For those curious: https://github.com/alshdavid/ion","time":1777957639,"type":"comment"},{"by":"ratstew","id":48017387,"kids":[48017587],"parent":48016880,"text":"This feels more like a reaction to Zig's anti-LLM policy than anything. Anthropic would probably like to contribute something back to Zig at some point, but I doubt anyone would ever believe their PRs were not written by Claude.","time":1777947580,"type":"comment"},{"by":"simultsop","id":48017944,"parent":48016880,"text":"Which makes one think, why they did not buy deno at first place then?
If they did, I guess they would rewrite deno in C++","time":1777954132,"type":"comment"},{"by":"icase","id":48017899,"parent":48016880,"text":"oh for christ’s sake","time":1777953670,"type":"comment"},{"by":"nananana9","id":48019007,"parent":48016880,"text":"Alright, back to node.
I was hopeful for this project, and I've reported crashes & bugs in the bundler with the hope that it will stabilize over time, but this is just silly - I'm not going to risk them pulling the rug under me and replacing the runtime with 1 million lines of vibecoded rust.","time":1777964485,"type":"comment"},{"by":"confessinator","id":48017498,"parent":48016880,"text":"Aside from Zig's anti-AI stance and maintaining their own Zig fork, I think this port will showcase that Anthropic can re-engineer a massive codebase.
As an aside, I've been bitten by Zig's breaking changes on my own projects as well. It's taken the shine off of Zig and I'm looking at alternatives.","time":1777948826,"type":"comment"},{"by":"ivolimmen","id":48017991,"parent":48016880,"text":"I am not a fan of AI but my limited experience with running local small LLM's did show me that rewriting some scripts into a different language worked really well. So my guess is this will just turn out fine.","time":1777954756,"type":"comment"},{"deleted":true,"id":48017407,"parent":48016880,"time":1777947843,"type":"comment"},{"by":"root_axis","id":48017419,"parent":48016880,"text":"Any confirmation that a genuine port is underway? This might just be an experiment.","time":1777947954,"type":"comment"},{"by":"hiroakiaizawa","id":48018539,"parent":48016880,"text":"Interesting. What are the main trade-offs they expect from the switch?","time":1777960001,"type":"comment"},{"by":"Animats","id":48017723,"parent":48016880,"text":"How well does that long translation prompt work?","time":1777951510,"type":"comment"},{"by":"joknoll","id":48018426,"parent":48016880,"text":"maybe anthropic should‘ve just acquired deno","time":1777958964,"type":"comment"},{"by":"larpa","id":48017039,"parent":48016880,"text":""Claude, migrate bun to Rust, make no mistakes"","time":1777944840,"type":"comment"},{"by":"forrestthewoods","id":48017667,"kids":[48019231],"parent":48016880,"text":"I hope they ship and use this. It’ll be a super interesting case study in a few years.","time":1777950901,"type":"comment"},{"by":"gib444","id":48018386,"parent":48016880,"text":"> Read this whole document before\nwriting any code.
Hm does that actually work?
Edit: in a way that can be verified, and not the AI tool saying it did","time":1777958660,"type":"comment"},{"by":"Capricorn2481","id":48017637,"kids":[48019152,48018961],"parent":48016880,"text":"April 26th - Bun announces they used AI to fork Zig so they could make an optimization for a 4x improvement
April 27th - Zig contributor mlugg clarifies why the specific optimizations Bun did were ill advised and wouldn't have been accepted in Zig, regardless of AI use [1]
May 4 - Bun is looking into Rust as an alternative.
This, to me, seems like total whiplash. Has anyone at Bun made a statement on why they're making such dramatic changes? It seems like the lesson to internalize from mlugg is not "switch to Rust"
[1] https://lobste.rs/s/ifcyr1/contributor_poker_zig_s_ai_ban#c_...","time":1777950498,"type":"comment"},{"by":"altun","id":48019062,"parent":48016880,"text":"I guess it's like Trump saying, "I'll take Greenland too..."","time":1777965131,"type":"comment"},{"by":"booleandilemma","id":48017335,"kids":[48017459,48017583],"parent":48016880,"text":"Interesting. When I thought of Zig, I thought of Bun. In my mind it was the flagship application for that language. Is there another? I wonder how the Zig team feels about this. To me it seems like Rust has definitively won now.","time":1777947189,"type":"comment"},{"deleted":true,"id":48017079,"parent":48016880,"time":1777945083,"type":"comment"},{"by":"sergiotapia","id":48017224,"kids":[48017300,48017463,48017418,48017471,48017609,48017626,48017275,48019204,48017570,48017283,48017340],"parent":48016880,"text":">*No `tokio`, `rayon`, `hyper`, `async-trait`, `futures`.* No `std::fs`,
I'm not a rust dev but even I kind of notice that tokio is kind of shunned in most projects. Why is that? Is it just bad or what?","time":1777946315,"type":"comment"},{"by":"iamgopal","id":48017934,"kids":[48018017],"parent":48016880,"text":"the days are not far when golang will be ported to rust.","time":1777954079,"type":"comment"},{"by":"ConanRus","id":48017054,"parent":48016880,"text":"instead of writing it once in C++","time":1777944916,"type":"comment"},{"by":"GianFabien","id":48018092,"parent":48016880,"text":"Here we go again ...
Company A buys company B. A's management decrees the henceforth B's aqcuihired team must comply with company A's standards.
Second system effect kicks in. Bugs multiply.
Half of original company B devs leave.
I'm investigating whether future projects should revert to using Deno.","time":1777955981,"type":"comment"},{"by":"0x142857","id":48017040,"kids":[48019048],"parent":48016880,"text":"you can use both zig and rust in a single project, duh","time":1777944846,"type":"comment"},{"by":"markovmodel","id":48018547,"parent":48016880,"text":"what a win","time":1777960087,"type":"comment"},{"by":"matrix12","id":48017788,"parent":48016880,"text":"it will make it more portable.","time":1777952185,"type":"comment"},{"by":"lacymorrow","dead":true,"id":48019031,"parent":48016880,"text":"[dead]","time":1777964826,"type":"comment"},{"by":"Amber-chen","dead":true,"id":48017552,"parent":48016880,"text":"[dead]","time":1777949511,"type":"comment"},{"by":"y534y5","dead":true,"id":48017559,"parent":48016880,"text":"[dead]","time":1777949596,"type":"comment"},{"by":"hakrgrl","id":48017729,"kids":[48019205],"parent":48016880,"text":"People are asking why they would switch from zig to rust. I wonder the opposite: why would anyone would use zig over rust?","time":1777951541,"type":"comment"},{"by":"nothinkjustai","id":48017258,"parent":48016880,"text":"Makes sense on merit. There really isn’t room for Zig when Rust exists, is more ergonomic, and also safe.","time":1777946527,"type":"comment"},{"by":"Entambi","id":48017385,"kids":[48017401],"parent":48016880,"text":"hahaha eat your heart out "don't port it to rust" gang","time":1777947571,"type":"comment"},{"by":"AbuAssar","id":48017946,"parent":48016880,"text":"I fully support this decision","time":1777954141,"type":"comment"}]},{"by":"averi","descendants":30,"id":48017813,"kids":[48019192,48017950,48018219,48018286,48018111,48018232,48017941,48017905,48018703,48017896,48017959,48017935,48017890],"score":91,"time":1777952588,"title":"CVE-2026-31431: Copy Fail vs. rootless containers","type":"story","url":"https://www.dragonsreach.it/2026/05/04/cve-2026-31431-copy-fail-rootless-containers/","comments":[{"by":"netheril96","id":48019192,"parent":48017813,"text":"If the goal is just preventing full root privileges, a CapabilityBoundingSet in a systemd unit will do.
However copy fail can be used in many other ways not contained by containers or the above settings. For example it can modify the /etc/ssl/certs to prepare for MitM attacks. If you have multiple containers based on the same image then one compromised CA set affects another.","time":1777966289,"type":"comment"},{"by":"amluto","id":48017950,"kids":[48019415,48019079,48018137,48018708,48018577],"parent":48017813,"text":"Sigh.
1. I would hope the default seccomp policy blocks AF_ALG in these containers. I bet it doesn’t. Oh well.
2. The write-to-RO-page-cache primitive STILL WORKED! It’s just that the particular exploit used had no meaningful effect in the already-root-in-a-container context. If you think you are safe, you’re probably wrong. All you need to make a new exploit is an fd representing something that you aren’t supposed to be able to write. This likely includes CoW things where you are supposed to be able to write after CoW but you aren’t supposed to be able to write to the source.
So:
- Are you using these containers with a common image or even a common layer in an image to isolate dangerous workloads from each other. Oops, they can modify the image layers and corrupt each other. There goes any sort of cross-tenant isolation.
- What if you get an fd backed by the zero page and write to it? This can’t result in anything that the administrator would approve of.
- What if you ro-bind-mount something in? It’s not ro any more.","time":1777954175,"type":"comment"},{"by":"Titan2189","id":48018219,"parent":48017813,"text":"> [...] that root was just my unprivileged podman user on the host
Couldn't you then simply re-run the exploit again as unprivileged podman user and gain root on the host?","time":1777957058,"type":"comment"},{"by":"averi","id":48018286,"parent":48017813,"text":"@titan2189, in a rootless Podman environment, the User Namespace acts as a constant translator between the container and the underlying host. Let's say you re-run the exploit, setuid(0) is run, kernel responds with a 0 (success) return code, you'd still be "trapped" inside the user namespace, which in turn maps your (root) user to an unprivileged user.","time":1777957705,"type":"comment"},{"by":"averi","id":48018111,"kids":[48018393,48018152],"parent":48017813,"text":"@amluto, fair points, I still consider this vulnerability extremely severe as yes, if you use rootless containers the attacker won't be able to get root on the host and with that injecting additional potential malware, but at the same time for containers re-using the same image layers it will give the ability to poison those binaries in memory and break to some extent the container to container isolation.
If we weren't looking into moving away from using containers completely into using ephemeral microVMs one area I'd invest in would be replicating what CargoWall does for GitHub actions in GitLab CI. At that point even if the attacker gained access to a container, modified a binary with some specific instructions (like reading env vars and sending them to an external server) it'd not be able to send credentials or fetch a malware remotely at all due to the DNS queries being intercepted by eBPF and being sent to a CoreDNS proxy.
I still think rootless containers increase the attack vector complexity in more than just a one liner into an attack scenario that, at that point, should also involve understanding additional details about the underlying host with information such as, as you correctly pointed out, what container images (and thus shared image layers) are present and also whether these images use setuid binaries which specific CI jobs explicitly call throughout the build process (kind of unusual to see anyone running a setuid binary in a CI pipeline anyway as that is generally an action that would result in a permission denied in normal conditions).","time":1777956097,"type":"comment"},{"by":"averi","id":48018232,"kids":[48018477,48018557],"parent":48017813,"text":"@hlieberman, the researchers imply container escape == root access on the target host, that is why they used a setuid binary in order to demonstrate the whole exploit. What this article mentions is that while the container escape (as in the ability to modify a binary in memory that may be shared across multiple containers) is still present gaining root in the underlying host doesn't happen.
@isityettime, the vulnerability happens not because of file contents being modified on disk (think of a base image that is shared across multiple CI builds) rather because a binary in one base image shares the same inode (and thus the same address space in memory as an optimization) as the same binary in another container, meaning container B will execute a poisoned binary and that's where the "container escape" happens.","time":1777957203,"type":"comment"},{"by":"2bitencryption","id":48017941,"parent":48017813,"text":"tl;dr - within the container, the exploit works, and elevates to root (uid 0) within the container - BUT because that namespace actually maps to uid 1000 (the user) outside the container, the escalation does not flow up to the host.
But… does this escape the container? If not (the author seems to indicate it does not) then does it matter if you are in Docker or rootless Podman, right, since the end result is always: you have elevated to root within the container. If the rest of the container filesystem isolation does its job, the end result is the same? Though I guess another chained exploit to escape the container would be worse in Docker? Do I have that right?","time":1777954124,"type":"comment"},{"by":"eqvinox","id":48017905,"parent":48017813,"text":"Running sstrip on an ELF binary is called ELF "golfing"? TIL…","time":1777953711,"type":"comment"},{"by":"walletdrainer","id":48018703,"parent":48017813,"text":"This feels LLM generated, lots of emdashes and even more text around a completely false premise.","time":1777961617,"type":"comment"},{"by":"washbasin","id":48017896,"kids":[48018020,48018120,48017949],"parent":48017813,"text":"Please post a tl;dr at the top or even in the subject. Many of us are scrambling to patch/reboot our **.","time":1777953621,"type":"comment"},{"by":"foreman_","dead":true,"id":48017959,"parent":48017813,"text":"[dead]","time":1777954304,"type":"comment"},{"by":"QuietLedge375","dead":true,"id":48017935,"parent":48017813,"text":"[dead]","time":1777954092,"type":"comment"},{"by":"hackeman300","dead":true,"id":48017890,"parent":48017813,"text":"[dead]","time":1777953530,"type":"comment"}]},{"by":"ingve","descendants":21,"id":48019025,"kids":[48019350,48019211,48019319,48019537,48019245],"score":19,"time":1777964725,"title":"Lessons for Agentic Coding: What should we do when code is cheap?","type":"story","url":"https://www.dbreunig.com/2026/05/04/10-lessons-for-agentic-coding.html","comments":[{"by":"torben-friis","id":48019350,"kids":[48019582,48019507],"parent":48019025,"text":"I came here exactly to point out what I'm glad to see is 10. "Free as in puppies" is a wonderful way to put it.
Every time I open linkedin I'm scared of how many big heads have taken the wrong lesson that coding almost free == free engineering. So many bait posts asking engineers why they would need to pay them any longer, or being glad they're generating millions of lines a month....this is going to end badly.","time":1777967974,"type":"comment"},{"by":"boesboes","id":48019211,"kids":[48019589,48019517,48019301],"parent":48019025,"text":"Realize it's going to be 10-100x more expensive once you have no way back?","time":1777966438,"type":"comment"},{"by":"faangguyindia","id":48019319,"parent":48019025,"text":"I am in India, junior developer hiring is all down. Ai has reduced offshoring to India and eliminated the need for janitor work (often offloaded to juniors).
Many people are finding it difficult to even land internships.
The most affected areas are sysadmin, devops, and frontend. Where you'll have very hard time getting any offer.
Companies like BrowserStack are withdrawing campus placement offers.
Meanwhile, I am writing apps for my own use and have reached 10,000+ monthly active users already, even though I am making zero money from doing all this, but it's fun.","time":1777967509,"type":"comment"},{"by":"pjc50","id":48019537,"parent":48019025,"text":"Apart from (2), the first seven lessons are exactly identical to good project management practices with humans. Which are also the difficult bits.
Once upon a time, highly bureaucratic organizations tried to make a distinction between "analyst", "programmer" and "coder": https://cacm.acm.org/opinion/the-myth-of-the-coder/
The pure "coder" role, per that paper, died out almost immediately. Nowadays it's done by compilers (a deterministic automation). The distinction between analyst and programmer held out a bit longer - ten years ago I was working somewhere that had "business analysts", essentially requirements-wranglers. It's possible that the "programmer" job of converting a well-defined specification into a program is also going to start disappearing.
.. but that still leaves the specification as the difficult bit! It remains like the old stories with genies: the genie can give you what you ask for. But you need to be very sure what you want, very clear about it, and aware that it may come with unasked-for downsides if you're not.","time":1777969517,"type":"comment"},{"by":"schnitzelstoat","id":48019245,"kids":[48019386],"parent":48019025,"text":"I've found the get-shit-done tool[1] to be quite useful for forcing me to properly plan the implementation and ensuring the context remains small and relevant at all times.
It is slower than when I was just using Claude directly though.
[1] https://github.com/gsd-build/get-shit-done","time":1777966754,"type":"comment"}]},{"by":"Sean-Der","descendants":123,"id":48013919,"kids":[48014814,48014806,48015453,48014204,48014276,48018424,48019069,48018526,48014746,48018396,48014906,48015276,48018643,48018579,48016144,48014765,48014637,48014901,48014160,48014867,48014454,48015353,48014155,48017184,48014922,48019252,48016674,48015093,48015101,48014352,48016850,48014857,48014975,48014604,48014995,48014200],"score":392,"time":1777923767,"title":"How OpenAI delivers low-latency voice AI at scale","type":"story","url":"https://openai.com/index/delivering-low-latency-voice-ai-at-scale/","comments":[{"by":"Sean-Der","id":48014814,"kids":[48016025,48015244,48015122,48017291,48016586,48014944,48015656],"parent":48013919,"text":"Very grateful that OpenAI published the article/publicized their usage of Pion[0] a library I work on. If you aren't familiar with WebRTC it's a super fun space. I work on a book WebRTC for the Curious [1] that details how it works.
[0] https://github.com/pion/webrtc
[1] https://webrtcforthecurious.com","time":1777927953,"type":"comment"},{"by":"legohead","id":48014806,"kids":[48014979,48015257,48019328,48018663,48015551,48015207,48017487,48016892,48014992,48016206,48016118,48015213,48015002,48015081,48019260,48015124],"parent":48013919,"text":"The low latency is more of a pain point than a good thing, the way they have it implemented. Trying to have a casual conversation with it, as humans we naturally pause, and GPT will take this as you are "done" and start blabbing away.
I also suffer from finding the appropriate word I want as I've gotten older and slower, and this fast-voice-gpt just ends up frustrating me more than helping. I have to sit there and think out the whole sentence in my head before I say anything -- not very natural.","time":1777927920,"type":"comment"},{"by":"Lucasoato","id":48015453,"kids":[48015749,48018906,48018406,48016493,48016303,48016147],"parent":48013919,"text":"Wait a minute... I’m genuinely happy that they are sharing this, but keep in mind that realtime audio model from OpenAI are still stuck with the 4o family in terms of capabilities, sadly. I still find them so useful, such a pity that there’s no real competitor in this segment, having the experience a real conversation has helped me so much in expressing ideas and concepts.
Still, it’s worth to keep in mind that these are not frontier models, differently from when they were released.
(Please Sam, if you read this, release the new realtime audio models)","time":1777931210,"type":"comment"},{"by":"thimabi","id":48014204,"kids":[48014435],"parent":48013919,"text":"> Voice AI only feels natural if conversation moves at the speed of speech […] At OpenAI’s scale, that translates into three concrete requirements: Global reach for more than 900 million weekly active users
Surely the number refers to the total users of ChatGPT overall, and the fraction of those who use voice features is considerably smaller, is it not?
That’s the kind of thing that influences business decisions like knowing how much hardware and software optimization to throw at a problem.","time":1777925005,"type":"comment"},{"by":"Aeroi","id":48014276,"kids":[48014368,48014301],"parent":48013919,"text":"if anyone is looking to get into this. pipecat is a great open-source repo and community. https://github.com/pipecat-ai/pipecat","time":1777925305,"type":"comment"},{"by":"amirathi","id":48018424,"parent":48013919,"text":"I find OpenAI's speech-to-text model the best of the lot. It can handle my & my 5-year old daughter's Indian accent pretty well.
I wonder if they run the STT model's output through the current model (that we're chatting with) as a final pass - since the text seem to be well aligned to the current conversation context.
For long prompts, I often speak to OAI web/app and copy-paste the text to Claude / Gemini :)","time":1777958958,"type":"comment"},{"by":"vjay15","id":48019069,"parent":48013919,"text":"This is such a good write up, WebRTC is one of the coolest things ever! It's kinda genius to use the VIP approach, SFU is also pretty scalable but now they dont even have to do that","time":1777965213,"type":"comment"},{"by":"tracyhenry","id":48018526,"kids":[48018569],"parent":48013919,"text":"After all these, I still feel their voice AI interrupts quite a lot, especially when I pause just for 0.5 sec. Interestingly, when I tell it to interrupt less, it seems to be better.","time":1777959847,"type":"comment"},{"by":"didibus","id":48014746,"parent":48013919,"text":"I wouldn't mind waiting longer for answers that would go through a better model with more thinking. As long as it has good support for interrupting and also it doesn't start answering as soon as I pause for 1 second and it's smart about knowing I'm done speaking.","time":1777927607,"type":"comment"},{"by":"deferredgrant","id":48018396,"parent":48013919,"text":"People are very sensitive to timing in conversation. Even if the words are good, a slightly wrong pause or interruption can make the system feel much less intelligent.","time":1777958693,"type":"comment"},{"by":"qrush","id":48014906,"kids":[48015441],"parent":48013919,"text":"Am I reading this right that OpenAI is not using Livekit for WebRTC/audio anymore?","time":1777928352,"type":"comment"},{"by":"logickkk1","id":48015276,"parent":48013919,"text":"IMO this probably isn't just about latency. keeping people in voice gives them training data text never will. is that why they were fine going transceiver over sfu and mostly ignoring multi-party?","time":1777930279,"type":"comment"},{"by":"whateveracct","id":48018643,"parent":48013919,"text":"why is the "How" included here? it is often removed","time":1777961017,"type":"comment"},{"by":"hiroakiaizawa","id":48018579,"parent":48013919,"text":"Interesting. What are the main latency bottlenecks in practice?","time":1777960323,"type":"comment"},{"by":"hnav","id":48016144,"parent":48013919,"text":"RFC 9297 support can't come quick enough in browsers. Would obviate having to deal with WebRTC in a client-server scenario.","time":1777936108,"type":"comment"},{"by":"charisma123","id":48014765,"kids":[48014825],"parent":48013919,"text":"If a transceiver crashes during a stream, how is the active session recovered? Does the system automatically re-establish the context in a new WebRTC session?","time":1777927723,"type":"comment"},{"by":"furyofantares","id":48014637,"parent":48013919,"text":"> Global reach for more than 900 million weekly active users
lol, definitely didn't need to know there's 900M weekly users for this post. I mean yeah, there's a lot of users and they serve globally, that's relevant. But this is just pulling out your biggest stat because you can. How many voice users you have would actually be relevant and interesting but, to baselessly speculate on motivation here, might be a number that doesn't add as much fuel to an upcoming IPO as reminded people that you're almost at a billion users does.","time":1777927073,"type":"comment"},{"deleted":true,"id":48014901,"parent":48013919,"time":1777928334,"type":"comment"},{"by":"anzerarkin","id":48014160,"kids":[48017881,48014331],"parent":48013919,"text":"I hate the voice ai though, it's so much dumber","time":1777924852,"type":"comment"},{"by":"CrzyLngPwd","id":48014867,"parent":48013919,"text":"It's bad enough having to speed-read the waffle of its written answers; even when told to be concise, the thought of having to listen to it waffle on in its smarmy, sycohpantic fashion makes me want to reach for the sick bag.","time":1777928167,"type":"comment"},{"by":"doctorpangloss","id":48014454,"kids":[48014880,48015334,48014771],"parent":48013919,"text":"what i learned from making a webrtc+kubernetes game streaming product:
- openai is wrong. almost of the issues they described are issues with libwebrtc, not with webrtc, kubernetes, network architecture, etc. the clue was when they said "the conventional one-port-per-session WebRTC model."
- there are no alternatives worth trying. everything else open source in the ecosystem, like pion, coturn, stunner, are too immature.
- libwebrtc is the only game in town.
- they haven't discovered libwebrtc feature flags or how it works with candidates, which directly fix a bunch of latency issues they are discovering. a correct feature flag can instantly reduce latency for free, compared to pay for twilio network traversal style solutions
- 99% of low latency voice END USERS will be in a network situation that can eliminate relays, transceivers, etc. it is totally first class on kubernetes. but you have to know something :)
this is the first time i'm experiencing gell mann amnesia with openai! look those guys are brilliant, but there is hardly anyone in the world who is doing this stuff correctly.","time":1777926170,"type":"comment"},{"by":"tom1IIIl1iIL","id":48015353,"parent":48013919,"text":"I think it's better to join some kind of club if you want to make friends?","time":1777930641,"type":"comment"},{"by":"AIorNot","id":48014155,"parent":48013919,"text":"so is the answer
WebRTC + Kubernetes","time":1777924822,"type":"comment"},{"by":"devopsengine","id":48017184,"parent":48013919,"text":"Inspired","time":1777945937,"type":"comment"},{"by":"rvz","id":48014922,"kids":[48015212,48015009,48015042],"parent":48013919,"text":"OpenAI uses Go for the networking implementation for the relays and the services, which makes a ton of sense, instead of something immature as TypeScript / Node or whatever.
Yet another reason to not consider anything else like that for low-latency networking. Golang (or even Rust and C++) is unmatched for this use-case.","time":1777928427,"type":"comment"},{"by":"NikolaosC","dead":true,"id":48019252,"parent":48013919,"text":"[dead]","time":1777966828,"type":"comment"},{"by":"mt_","dead":true,"id":48016674,"parent":48013919,"text":"[dead]","time":1777941143,"type":"comment"},{"by":"DumpoLumbo","dead":true,"id":48015093,"parent":48013919,"text":"[dead]","time":1777929262,"type":"comment"},{"by":"DumpoLumbo","dead":true,"id":48015101,"parent":48013919,"text":"[flagged]","time":1777929299,"type":"comment"},{"by":"Dorrell","dead":true,"id":48014352,"parent":48013919,"text":"[flagged]","time":1777925671,"type":"comment"},{"by":"charcircuit","dead":true,"id":48016850,"parent":48013919,"text":"[dead]","time":1777943093,"type":"comment"},{"by":"testing_auth","dead":true,"id":48014857,"parent":48013919,"text":"[dead]","time":1777928143,"type":"comment"},{"by":"testing_auth","dead":true,"id":48014975,"parent":48013919,"text":"[dead]","time":1777928649,"type":"comment"},{"by":"flakiness","id":48014604,"kids":[48014736],"parent":48013919,"text":"Should I or shouldn't I be glad to see zero mention on Codex.","time":1777926953,"type":"comment"},{"by":"jonahs197","id":48014995,"parent":48013919,"text":"Who cares? Their company is dying.","time":1777928752,"type":"comment"},{"by":"cdrnsf","id":48014200,"parent":48013919,"text":"It's missing the part where they explain how they obtained the training data for their voice AI.","time":1777924995,"type":"comment"}]},{"by":"Brajeshwar","descendants":0,"id":47990491,"score":17,"time":1777755828,"title":"Farewell to a Giant of Botany","type":"story","url":"https://nautil.us/farewell-to-a-giant-of-botany-1280409","comments":[]},{"by":"anujbans","descendants":0,"id":48019165,"score":6,"time":1777965978,"title":"The Frog for Whom the Bell Tolls","type":"story","url":"https://sethmlarson.dev/the-frog-for-whom-the-bell-tolls","comments":[]},{"by":"MrBuddyCasino","descendants":103,"id":48018066,"kids":[48018809,48018441,48018168,48018696,48018800,48019166,48018792,48018280,48018861,48018468,48019150,48018675,48018790,48018276,48018671,48018550],"score":132,"time":1777955602,"title":"About 10% of AMC movie showings sell zero tickets. This site finds them","type":"story","url":"https://walzr.com/empty-screenings","comments":[{"by":"kleiba2","id":48018809,"kids":[48019087,48018975],"parent":48018066,"text":"When I lived in Germany, I had an apartment in the vicinity of three tiny arthouse theaters. I used to go there all the time by myself because you could basically walk to all three of them. Saw a lot of movies I would have never seen otherwise, most of which I don't remember at all.
The theaters were never full. So it was basically just like watching a movie in your own living room. Yeah, except maybe for the handful of strangers that were there to watch with you.","time":1777962601,"type":"comment"},{"by":"wodenokoto","id":48018441,"kids":[48018516,48018587,48018924],"parent":48018066,"text":"I remember I went to a small showing once as a kid. It was just our group and 1 lady in the theater.
We got to small talk and the lady mentioned she had once been the only customer for a showing and told the projectionist that she didn’t want to be a bother and could come back and another day.
The projectionist had apparently replied that it was no bother - they would roll the movie even if no one showed up!","time":1777959084,"type":"comment"},{"by":"caymanjim","id":48018168,"kids":[48018684,48018191,48018302,48019070,48018374,48018345,48018205,48018403,48018266,48018324,48018295,48018534],"parent":48018066,"text":"Do enough people buy tickets in advance now that this really indicates anything of value? I'm old and have never pre-purchased a movie ticket in my life. I assume a lot of people do, but the few times I've been to the movies lately, it seems people are buying tickets at the theater.","time":1777956575,"type":"comment"},{"by":"cryptozeus","id":48018696,"kids":[48019026,48018794,48018987,48018704],"parent":48018066,"text":"May be I am in minority but I would hate to be alone in entire theater. I enjoy some vibe and people around","time":1777961528,"type":"comment"},{"by":"protocolture","id":48018800,"parent":48018066,"text":"I used to frequent the brisbane regent cinema precisely because it was reliably empty. The franchise kept it running because having a really nice prestige theatre was good for their brand, but compared to their other sites it was revenue neutral at best.","time":1777962535,"type":"comment"},{"by":"mzelling","id":48019166,"kids":[48019189],"parent":48018066,"text":"This site will probably defeat its purpose. You discover an empty showing and are excited to have your own "private theater", but thanks to this site, somebody else will have the same idea and you'll both have to share your private theater.","time":1777965979,"type":"comment"},{"by":"dawnerd","id":48018792,"kids":[48018814],"parent":48018066,"text":"I’ve been to a few showings by myself back in the moviepass days. It was really nice, I’d wait until a movie was basically at the very end of its run and watch whatever was playing. I can’t stand others making noise, too distracting.","time":1777962456,"type":"comment"},{"by":"blintz","id":48018280,"kids":[48018731,48018462],"parent":48018066,"text":"This is cool. Something about dropping everything to go see a movie in an empty theater is sort of tempting.","time":1777957656,"type":"comment"},{"by":"maxglute","id":48018861,"kids":[48019476,48019089],"parent":48018066,"text":"On flip side had switch gyms to be among strangers becomes turning on gym socialization really tanked my training.","time":1777963074,"type":"comment"},{"by":"nebula8804","id":48018468,"kids":[48018633,48018501],"parent":48018066,"text":"I have been quite a heavy patron of AMC theaters these past few years since COVID ended. I have seen A LOT of movies play to empty theaters. I used to actually peek at many of the rooms when I left my movie and so many were downright empty.
Its the norm and its probably why their stock is trading at $1.45 as of this writing.
Its a dead (not dying, dead) entertainment option. When you are competing for the same 24 hrs in a day with TV, Youtube, Gaming, Streaming, TikTok, Instagram and many others the theater is bottom of the barrel for young people today.
And don't tell me its because people are disrespectful or the commercials are too long. These are a problem but Alamo Drafthouse tried to tackle this and they ended up in bankruptcy. AMC would also be bankrupt today but it's saving grace was the meme stock frenzy they had a few years back. Probably bought them a few more years but that ride might be coming to an end.
Currently they fill the rooms for the pop movies like old established franchises but that only comes along every couple weeks at the most and the rest of the time the place is not really busy. This is a bit different in the big cities but AMC has overextended themselves with too many locations in the rural and suburban US.
...Also this app is not displaying accurate data (I assume they are pulling from AMC's API). My local theater is listing no results and I cross checked and there are movies currently listed that have 0 seats booked so the app is counting incorrectly for at least one theater.
EDIT: After I wrote this, the site auto updated with new data. Now I see some screenings but it is still inaccurate because it is still missing movies from that theater...maybe they are scraping instead of using the API? This is a simple problem if using the API (I wrote my own home cooked app): just iterate through all theater ids, find the ones with 0 bookings and display that list.","time":1777959340,"type":"comment"},{"by":"gsky","id":48019150,"parent":48018066,"text":"i watched 2 movies all alone. one of the best experiences i have ever had since i hate being around people","time":1777965875,"type":"comment"},{"by":"aurareturn","id":48018675,"kids":[48019167],"parent":48018066,"text":"There is always that one person who eats popcorn so loud for most of the movie and ruins the experience for me.","time":1777961319,"type":"comment"},{"by":"RagnarD","id":48018790,"parent":48018066,"text":"Where does it get the realtime data for this?","time":1777962427,"type":"comment"},{"by":"orliesaurus","id":48018276,"parent":48018066,"text":"Damn, people really love going to the movies here in Austin, Texas.","time":1777957635,"type":"comment"},{"by":"ButlerianJihad","id":48018671,"kids":[48018710],"parent":48018066,"text":"Movie theaters are reinventing themselves in various ways, and I’m unsure if it’s working, but some of it is creative.
Around here, films from Bollywood show in Telugu, Hindi, Gujarati languages. There are family films in Spanish (those aren’t bad dubs, but parallel scripts and A-list voice actors.) Want to watch a Studio Ghibli film? Here’s the timetable for dubbed; here’s a timetable for subtitles!
There are live video-game tournaments. There are premieres for live operas and symphony orchestra performances that are simulcast around a region.
There are Christian groups who go in to support a film, and they can turn those into fundraisers and evangelization activity.
The auditoriums can be rented out for special events. Big birthday, Kindergarten graduation, Quinceañeras, etc. They will support teleconferencing and businesses can hold seminars or all-hands meetings there.
I suppose that all of these schemes were harmed by the pandemic and lockdowns, but the advertising is still there, and the Hindus are still showing up on public transit.","time":1777961290,"type":"comment"},{"by":"LarsDu88","id":48018550,"parent":48018066,"text":"Would be a wonderful site for people to find places to have private movie sex, but then I remembered that this is HackerNews","time":1777960106,"type":"comment"}]},{"by":"BOOSTERHIDROGEN","descendants":102,"id":48015397,"kids":[48018018,48017219,48018392,48017536,48017558,48016369,48019299,48016667,48018619,48016564,48018204,48018452,48017644,48017817,48017145,48018021,48016417,48017568,48016083,48016037,48016558,48018983,48016398,48016965,48015853,48019417,48018453,48018045,48018023,48017550,48016431,48017444,48017911,48015458],"score":241,"time":1777930842,"title":"Agent Skills","type":"story","url":"https://addyosmani.com/blog/agent-skills/","comments":[{"by":"wg0","id":48018018,"kids":[48018544,48018193,48019003,48019017,48018964],"parent":48015397,"text":"Snake oil. Good to read for sure. Seems all plausible too. But snake oil nevertheless.
Here's why: The slot machine can drop any hard requirement that you specifically in your AGENTS.md, memory.md or your dozens of skill markdowns. Pretty much guaranteed.
These harnesses approaches pretend as if LLMs are strict and perfect rule followers and the only problem is not being able to specify enough rules clearly enough. That's fundamental cognitive lapse in how LLMs operate.
That leaves only one option not reliable but more reliable nevertheless: Human review and oversight. Possibly two of them one after the other.
Everything else is snake oil but at that point, you also realize that promised productivity gains are also snake oil because reading code and building a mental model is way harder than having a mental model and writing it into code.","time":1777955053,"type":"comment"},{"by":"ai_fry_ur_brain","id":48017219,"kids":[48018282,48018104,48017582,48018553,48017687,48017665,48017599,48017500,48018281,48017916,48017230],"parent":48015397,"text":"Cant wait for everyone to realize they've wasted a year + messing with agents and experiencing a feeling of psuedo productivity.","time":1777946255,"type":"comment"},{"by":"stellalo","id":48018392,"kids":[48019440],"parent":48015397,"text":"> A skill is a markdown file with frontmatter that gets injected into the agent’s context when the situation calls for it.
When the LLM decides that the situation calls for it
> It is a workflow: a sequence of steps the agent follows, with checkpoints that produce evidence, ending in a defined exit criterion.
A sequence of steps the LLM can decide to follow","time":1777958670,"type":"comment"},{"by":"dmix","id":48017536,"parent":48015397,"text":"I've tried these larger agent skillsets in the past and felt it was a waste of time because it was just doing too much. Just like vim it's often better to pick and choose from the community instead of installing skills like they are an IDE. Skills are way too personal because every dev and dev team is different. So better to treat these as a reference for your own config rather than bulk install someone else's config.","time":1777949242,"type":"comment"},{"by":"thatmf","id":48017558,"kids":[48017808,48017713,48017617,48018598,48018349,48018044,48018084],"parent":48015397,"text":"Why are people so excited to put themselves out of a job?
Not that these or any "skills" will do that, but just- in principle. This is like alienation from labor at scale.","time":1777949586,"type":"comment"},{"by":"CharlesW","id":48016369,"kids":[48016405,48017569,48016414,48016578],"parent":48015397,"text":"From an SEO/LLMO perspective, the discoverability of these skills will be difficult without a rename: https://agentskills.io/
If Addy reads this, how do you pitch this vs. Superpowers? https://github.com/obra/superpowers","time":1777937983,"type":"comment"},{"by":"Lio","id":48019299,"parent":48015397,"text":"“A senior engineer’s job is mostly the parts that don’t show up in the diff.”
Agent Skills is Addy’s attempt to kill that job too. Cheers Addy. :P","time":1777967298,"type":"comment"},{"by":"zmmmmm","id":48016667,"kids":[48018879,48017124,48016879,48017902,48017062],"parent":48015397,"text":"I was surprised how long some of these skills are. They are pages and pages long with tables and checkbox lists and code examples, etc.
Curious how normal that is - it would only take a couple of these to really fill the context alot.","time":1777941100,"type":"comment"},{"by":"ColinEberhardt","id":48018619,"parent":48015397,"text":"Agents Skills are built upon “Five design decisions [that] are the load-bearing ones”
And Open Design (HN front page yesterday) is supported by “Six load-bearing ideas”
The similarities in the way these prompt libraries are documented doesn’t feel coincidental.","time":1777960773,"type":"comment"},{"by":"turlockmike","id":48016564,"kids":[48016814,48016808,48018806,48016722,48016881,48016741,48016860,48017073],"parent":48015397,"text":"The best way to prompt an LLM is to describe the outcome you want, that's it. They are trained as task completers. A clear outcome is way better than a process.
If the LLM fails, either you didn't describe your outcome sufficiently or is misinterpreted what you said or it couldn't do it (rare).
Common errors should be encoded as context for future similar tasks, don't bloat skills with stuff that isn't shown to be necessary.","time":1777940014,"type":"comment"},{"by":"cortesoft","id":48018204,"parent":48015397,"text":"What makes this better/different than spec-kit? It seems to have a very similar philosophy. I wonder if they could work together? Or would they just be duplicative?
https://github.com/github/spec-kit","time":1777956945,"type":"comment"},{"by":"tariky","id":48018452,"parent":48015397,"text":"What is difference between superpowers and this?
I use superpowers for several months now and it really does help. But still 90/10 rule applies, 10% of time it will produce stupid decision. So always check spec.","time":1777959250,"type":"comment"},{"by":"SudheerTammini","id":48017644,"parent":48015397,"text":"Recently I have got an access(enterprise)to the latest ChatGPT module with an ability to write skills to automate repeatable taks. Without any prior knowledge I just started tinkering and now after creating and testing multiple skills in real business environment I can confidently say writing a good skill is a skill itself. As the author mentioned it's not an essay but a specific instructions sets organised in steps and in a concise manner.","time":1777950660,"type":"comment"},{"by":"theahura","id":48017817,"kids":[48017924],"parent":48015397,"text":"I really wish he wouldn't use AI to write his posts. It would be faster to just post the prompt he used to write the article","time":1777952632,"type":"comment"},{"by":"codemog","id":48017145,"parent":48015397,"text":"Everyone who writes this kind of stuff skips the boring parts: science and engineering.
Yep, benchmarks, comparisons of with/without, samples of generated code with/without. This kind of stuff matters, and you may be making your agent stupider or getting worse results without real analysis.
Also this prose reads like the author has drunk the Google kool-aid and not much else.","time":1777945640,"type":"comment"},{"by":"koliber","id":48018021,"kids":[48018164],"parent":48015397,"text":"Lately I keep hearing the same thing over and over: the things that are good for managing a team of devs are good for LLMs.
Good test cases.
Clear and concise documentation.
CI/CD.
Best practices and onboarding docs.
Managing LLMs is becoming more and more similar to managing teams of people.","time":1777955061,"type":"comment"},{"by":"senko","id":48016417,"kids":[48016665,48016682],"parent":48015397,"text":"> This isn’t a coincidence. It’s the same SDLC every functioning engineering organisation runs, just in different vocabulary. [...] Amazon calls it the working-backwards memo and the bar raiser. Every healthy team has some version of this loop.
This (sdlc == working backwards & bar raiser) is so horribly wrong, that I hope this was an LLM hallucination.
In general, I'm starting to see these agent scaffolding systems as an anti-pattern: people obsess over systems for guiding agents and construct elaborate rube-goldberg machines and then others cargo-cult them wholesale, in an effort to optimize and control a random process and minimize human involvement.","time":1777938484,"type":"comment"},{"by":"konaraddi","id":48017568,"parent":48015397,"text":"There’s so many ways, many redundant, to set up agents for software development that beyond personal/team/org needs+tastes, I need to look into setting up some benchmarks to evaluate what set up is optimal or whether the differences are even worth it.","time":1777949685,"type":"comment"},{"by":"ElijahLynn","id":48016083,"parent":48015397,"text":"I've been using Agent Skills on a new side project and I'm really impressed so far! It really holds my hand a lot of the way and really lets me focus on developing a product instead of figuring out how to build it. I get to focus much more energy on high level architecture and product design.
Very grateful for this repository and everyone who contributed to it!","time":1777935676,"type":"comment"},{"by":"y-curious","id":48016037,"kids":[48017028],"parent":48015397,"text":"Thanks for this, going to steal a lot of this. I would install your plugin, but I worry about being able to delete it later. I also think that each one of these is better served customized to a developer. That said, I'm still going to grab some of these, thanks!","time":1777935327,"type":"comment"},{"by":"gavmor","id":48016558,"kids":[48016754],"parent":48015397,"text":"Naming things is such a hard problem that many devs don't even bother trying.
That being said, this post is full of reasonable assertions, so I'm looking forward to experimenting with this... whatever it is.","time":1777939923,"type":"comment"},{"by":"scotty79","id":48018983,"parent":48015397,"text":"> Workflows are agent-actionable; essays are not. The same is true for human teams. If your team handbook is 200 pages, no one reads it under time pressure.
Agents do read that. And actually remember it. Because it's tiny with other things you are cramming into their context.","time":1777964205,"type":"comment"},{"by":"gosukiwi","id":48016398,"parent":48015397,"text":"I wonder how does this compare to superpowers","time":1777938203,"type":"comment"},{"by":"AndyNemmity","id":48016965,"parent":48015397,"text":"This is why I created the /do router, to route to all skills. I also have anti rationalization, progressive context discovery etc.
I only make it for me, so it's a bit complex and targeted towards me, and what I do, but it's pretty easy to adjust things.
https://github.com/notque/vexjoy-agent
Working on reading through Agent Skills, it seems we've converged on a lot of the same points, and I've never seen it, so trying to get an understanding of it.
Edit 1: I don't like all the commands. I just rely on a single router to automatically decide what I want, and that feels like the most reasonable way to me to communicate with it.
I don't want to remember things. And that's the way for me to scale the number of skills and activities. I don't have to think about them.
Edit 2: We have very different routers.
https://github.com/addyosmani/agent-skills/blob/f504276d8e07...
vs
https://github.com/notque/vexjoy-agent/blob/main/skills/do/S...
I personally wouldn't call theirs an intelligent router. They are dancing between a few different skills. We have extremely different setups there.
But of course, I'm using way more context to get it done. I'm even sending it out to Haiku to build the route choices.
I choose to use tokens to make things better for myself, not everyone would make the same choice, so I certainly see why they are using a few skills, and composing them.
Edit 3: This is much easier for a user to wrap their head around because there's much less.
I am only focused on the best improvements I can make that show value for my use cases. This is straight foward to reason about.
This seems like a nice way to get the best concepts for people trying to understand them. I commend them for a clean, simple approach.
Edit 4: Yeah, I think there are some things I can learn from them which is always good.
I especially like simple decisions like collapsing the install details for each harness in the readme.
I'm going to read over the entire thing and look for opportunities to improve my stuff.
We are all working together, learning, testing, building, trying to find the best way to implement things.","time":1777944139,"type":"comment"},{"by":"encoderer","id":48015853,"parent":48015397,"text":"I adopted a couple of these, the api design and ui testing ones have been particularly helpful.","time":1777934062,"type":"comment"},{"by":"luodaint","dead":true,"id":48019417,"parent":48015397,"text":"[dead]","time":1777968609,"type":"comment"},{"by":"openclawclub","dead":true,"id":48018453,"parent":48015397,"text":"[flagged]","time":1777959255,"type":"comment"},{"by":"lacymorrow","dead":true,"id":48018045,"parent":48015397,"text":"[flagged]","time":1777955331,"type":"comment"},{"by":"dmitrijbelikov","dead":true,"id":48018023,"parent":48015397,"text":"[dead]","time":1777955082,"type":"comment"},{"by":"Amber-chen","dead":true,"id":48017550,"parent":48015397,"text":"[dead]","time":1777949501,"type":"comment"},{"by":"stevenpetryk","dead":true,"id":48016431,"parent":48015397,"text":"[dead]","time":1777938587,"type":"comment"},{"by":"cpharsh410","dead":true,"id":48017444,"parent":48015397,"text":"[flagged]","time":1777948206,"type":"comment"},{"by":"panavm","dead":true,"id":48017911,"parent":48015397,"text":"[flagged]","time":1777953764,"type":"comment"},{"by":"saluc28","dead":true,"id":48015458,"parent":48015397,"text":"[dead]","time":1777931233,"type":"comment"}]},{"by":"cadito","descendants":69,"id":48017251,"kids":[48018247,48019559,48019381,48018355,48017984,48017822,48017252,48018243,48019018,48017604,48019052,48018338,48018135,48018222],"score":88,"time":1777946475,"title":"The Car That Watches You Back: The Advertising Infrastructure of Modern Cars","type":"story","url":"https://nobodyaskedforthis.lol/posts/connected-car/","comments":[{"by":"jmward01","id":48018247,"kids":[48019532,48018957,48018885,48018864,48018467,48018746],"parent":48017251,"text":"This one issue, privacy, has stopped me from buying a new car. It is stopping me from even buying a used one since it is hard to figure out how far back you need to go to be rid of these things. Screaming at the wind though isn't helping. We need actual real options. I will buy something that it privacy aware. This is YC. Someone, build the startup that sells that and you have my money.","time":1777957391,"type":"comment"},{"by":"dwedge","id":48019559,"parent":48017251,"text":"It made me laugh that a site "nobodyaskedforthis.lol" specifically about an aversion to modern tech (tracking, advertising) was written by an LLM","time":1777969708,"type":"comment"},{"by":"Ozzie_osman","id":48019381,"parent":48017251,"text":"Surprised to see no mention of Chinese cars, which are currently taking over the rest of the globe (EVs, REVs, hybrids). For half the price of a US or European car, you get a car with a lot more bells and whistles, which of course, include multiple large screens inside, software that controls everything (seat positions, lights, etc), LED matrix lighting on the front, and an app to control the car remotely.","time":1777968292,"type":"comment"},{"by":"incoren3","id":48018355,"kids":[48019306],"parent":48017251,"text":"The newest car I own is 14 years old, and the next one I buy will have a carburetor.
And you better believe I will ride around on a fucking HORSE before I put up with ads on my dashboard. Screw that noise.","time":1777958353,"type":"comment"},{"by":"mmooss","id":48017984,"kids":[48018013,48018279,48018033,48018464,48018378,48018185],"parent":48017251,"text":"What are the options for cars that don't track you? For example, new cars that don't include tracking, cars old enough to not have it, cars that can be modified (e.g., parts disconnected, software updated) to stop it, etc.","time":1777954611,"type":"comment"},{"by":"VladVladikoff","id":48017822,"kids":[48017851,48017931],"parent":48017251,"text":"Awful writing. Cant stand that LLM generated drivel. Ruins it for me.
On the topic however I do wish there was a fully disconnected modern car. Maybe a Corolla with base trim has no starlink?","time":1777952712,"type":"comment"},{"by":"cadito","id":48017252,"kids":[48019114,48018721],"parent":48017251,"text":"The transition started with drive-by-wire and the CAN bus, but the moment they added cellular modems, the dashboard became a platform. Automakers are currently running the exact same programmatic targeting logic as web publishers and in-store retail networks. The only difference is they conveniently left out all the consent infrastructure we forced onto the web.
Tried to look at the actual ad-tech and architecture driving this rather than just doing another "touchscreens are bad" rant.","time":1777946475,"type":"comment"},{"by":"dmitrygr","id":48018243,"parent":48017251,"text":"replacing the antenna with a 50-ohm resistor works very well. The car thinks it is out of cell reception and continues to work. No manufacturer would dare have their cars stop working merely due to it being in Montana (indistinguishable from having no cell antenna/reception).","time":1777957340,"type":"comment"},{"by":"Lio","id":48019018,"kids":[48019193],"parent":48017251,"text":"It would be a great idea for a website to sell the latest versions of cars, used or new, that didn’t feature enshitification tech.
Maybe it’s not a huge market but I bet there is some market still for a quality experience.","time":1777964631,"type":"comment"},{"by":"downrightmike","id":48017604,"kids":[48018484,48018738],"parent":48017251,"text":"$60k min, 80+month loans, Insurance++, and you are still the product. So much for the freedom of the open road.","time":1777950066,"type":"comment"},{"by":"lynx97","id":48019052,"kids":[48019588],"parent":48017251,"text":"Its small, but there remains the hope that progressive enshittification of cars might convince a few people not to own one. Cities with useful public transport infrastructure already see a trend of young people not owning a car, which is good.","time":1777965037,"type":"comment"},{"by":"everyone","id":48018338,"parent":48017251,"text":"I guess just stick to cars from mid 2000's and older.
There is another issue with newer cars too, They have extremely loose piston rings, after X thousand miles they burn as much oil as a 2 stroke.
https://youtu.be/Ft12aZffCEg?si=uYlRABoqweTOKaoi","time":1777958202,"type":"comment"},{"by":"fiatpandas","id":48018135,"parent":48017251,"text":"An interesting late stage capitalism ad hack I’ve seen in cars : OTA digital radio transmits track metadata like artist, title, and album artwork. I’ve seen some stations transmit tiny square ads in place of album artwork, even while the song is playing.","time":1777956298,"type":"comment"},{"by":"dackdel","id":48018222,"kids":[48019599,48018309],"parent":48017251,"text":"a fully disconnected car that does not report back to its mother ship. does. not. exist. only other option is to buy a car old enough that does not have it. also if you didn't bring this up most north americans would be blissfully unaware, as long as the car has a good cup holder.","time":1777957066,"type":"comment"}]},{"by":"the-mitr","descendants":0,"id":48018034,"score":25,"time":1777955252,"title":"2-D Mathematical Curves","type":"story","url":"https://www.2dcurves.com/","comments":[]},{"by":"simonebrunozzi","descendants":33,"id":48008104,"kids":[48018297,48018181,48018115,48018258,48019458,48018588,48018895],"score":54,"time":1777899316,"title":"Gaps in national food production, worldwide","type":"story","url":"https://www.nature.com/articles/s43016-025-01173-4","comments":[{"by":"esperent","id":48018297,"kids":[48019534,48018416,48018826,48018999,48019286],"parent":48008104,"text":"> Fish and seafood self-sufficiency is particularly low across most regions
This seems like an impossible requirement to meet for landlocked countries.
I didn't see how deep they go here: for example, Ireland ranked higher than I expected, because of a lot of dairy and meat production. But how much of the cattle feed is imported?
According to this article, "Ireland imports around 80 percent of its animal feed, food, beverages, and other agri-food products".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agriculture_in_Ireland
I haven't examined the source link to see if that's fully accurate, but if it's even mostly true, and that import collapsed, it would be a catastrophe.
It's not enough just to label a country as producer/not producer for a category but rather whether that production is fully stable and internalized in case of disasters/war.
My guess is that the results in the study should look worse for many of the countries listed.","time":1777957816,"type":"comment"},{"by":"jemmyw","id":48018181,"kids":[48018327,48019027,48019389,48018323],"parent":48008104,"text":"New Zealand appears to be missing from the map. Hard to know in this case if we're missing for the usual reason or because we have no food production gap.","time":1777956753,"type":"comment"},{"by":"shrubby","id":48018115,"kids":[48018200],"parent":48008104,"text":"Nationalist food security, at least here in Finland, seems really paradoxical as the main focus seems to be animal production, with imported feed.","time":1777956133,"type":"comment"},{"by":"pelcg","id":48018258,"parent":48008104,"text":"This makes me sad to see this. The economic implications of this is catastrophic and unfortunately people who are in the middle of warzones get squeezed and suffer from famines.","time":1777957467,"type":"comment"},{"by":"jongjong","id":48019458,"parent":48008104,"text":"As an engineer I'm too busy processing spreadsheets with AI to concern myself with the menial task of food production.","time":1777968924,"type":"comment"},{"by":"hagbard_c","id":48018588,"kids":[48019268,48019321,48019034],"parent":48008104,"text":"I had a look at the maps in the article and noticed they somehow managed to forget the Netherlands, the #2 exporter of agricultural products in the world. This makes me wonder about the quality of the rest of the article given that Nature, once a journal of note has rapidly gone down the ideologically biased slide like many other publications and as such lost a lot of credibility.","time":1777960449,"type":"comment"},{"by":"contingencies","id":48018895,"parent":48008104,"text":"At https://infinite-food.com/ we've spent ten years targeting food distribution efficiency with robotics. Now raising for GTM with multiple simultaneous order of magnitude improvements over legacy operations. To put it bluntly, we will print money: scaling initially at the same rate as the fastest QSR historically attested, and accelerating from there. Raising $100M, $30M spoken for, looking for a $50M lead.","time":1777963337,"type":"comment"}]},{"by":"Wingy","descendants":4,"id":47988439,"kids":[48018448,48018140],"score":44,"time":1777742743,"title":"pgxbackup: Continuity Support for pgBackRest","type":"story","url":"https://thebuild.com/blog/2026/05/01/pgxbackup-continuity-support-for-pgbackrest/","comments":[{"by":"moontear","id":48018448,"kids":[48018538],"parent":47988439,"text":"Is the co-authoring by Claude good practice or is it better to not have that reference in each commit?
I kind of feel all the commits by Claude everywhere are a marketing gig. In terms of transparency of course state somewhere that you are using AI, but personally it doesn’t help me seeing this on every commit. Ultimately you don’t know anyways which part of the commit was AI-inspired, AI-written or human-written, but the co-authored by Claude makes it seem that everything was done by AI and maybe diminishing its credibility.","time":1777959160,"type":"comment"},{"by":"wg0","id":48018140,"kids":[48018270],"parent":47988439,"text":"Why not hire the original author?","time":1777956351,"type":"comment"}]},{"by":"unixfg","descendants":0,"id":48017641,"score":33,"time":1777950596,"title":"Biscuit","type":"story","url":"https://github.com/yattsu/biscuit","comments":[]},{"by":"bearsyankees","descendants":81,"id":48012162,"kids":[48014362,48016224,48013317,48013258,48013427,48015434,48014021,48012923,48013344,48015957,48012737,48012851,48014274,48014260,48012781,48012771,48016779,48015115,48014991],"score":194,"time":1777916792,"title":"Securing a DoD contractor: Finding a multi-tenant authorization vulnerability","type":"story","url":"https://www.strix.ai/blog/how-strix-found-zero-auth-vulnerability-dod-backed-startup","comments":[{"by":"mcoliver","id":48014362,"kids":[48015227,48014592,48015194,48016766,48016190],"parent":48012162,"text":"I've seen this at so many startups (and worked to patch the gaps and put in best practices) including those backed by top tier VCs. The problem is that it is rare for startups to have security minded people.
It's usually designers, people who can raise money, and generalists who can stitch together apis. It's not generally platform, db, or security minded people. The proliferation of things like vercel and supabase have exacerbated this.
So you get people deploying API keys client side and dbs without rls. Or deploying service keys client side when they should be anon. I mean really basic stuff.","time":1777925744,"type":"comment"},{"by":"luminati","id":48016224,"kids":[48019522,48017773],"parent":48012162,"text":"off-topic, but I've become quite intrigued with AI pentesting, after being very unhappy with the various pentest firms we've used in the past, that rip us off or do very mediocre tests (of course yeah yeah the really good ones exist but even then they're not going to match the speed at which we are claude coding now).
Tried a bunch of open source pentesters, including strix (though we never managed to get strix to actually complete.)\nthis project called shannon was the only one that we managed to get working reliably and it definitely smoked the output of one of the $10K pentests we did, (we had just discovered shannon after we had gotten the pentest firm's report, so it gave us a good baseline comparison). caveat: this was white box and our pentest firm did greybox, but neverthless I was still very unimpressed by what I got from the pentest firm. $50 vs $10K is not even a comparison lol with far far better results and sent our cto into near heart attack mode.
i think the days of pentesting firms are over - especially with mythos/5.5-cyber etc like capability coming into play. very exciting times ahead!","time":1777936795,"type":"comment"},{"by":"codegeek","id":48013317,"kids":[48014333,48014408],"parent":48012162,"text":""There was no meaningful organization scoping, no tenant isolation, and no permission check preventing a low-privilege user from accessing other organizations' records."
Let me guess though. They are SOC2 and ISO compliant right ?","time":1777921196,"type":"comment"},{"by":"janice1999","id":48013258,"kids":[48015267,48013295],"parent":48012162,"text":"Finally the AI security startup hustlers will keep the other tech startup hustlers in line. Maybe the era of devastating leaks and total disregard for user privacy will come to an end (doubtful).","time":1777920998,"type":"comment"},{"by":"tptacek","id":48013427,"parent":48012162,"text":"Initial take: as vulnerability stories go, this is a pretty boring one; what they have here is a target that was secured largely by the fact that few people knew about it. The most work done in this blog post is establishing that a training platform deployed by DoD might be much more sensitive than the same kinds of applications which are ubiquitous throughout corporate America and which are generally boring targets.
The vulnerability itself appears to be something anyone with mitmproxy would have spotted within minutes of looking at the platform; apparently, rotating object IDs worked everywhere in the app, and there was no meaningful authz.
It's interesting if AI systems can "spot" these, in the sense of autonomously exercising the application and "understanding" obvious failed authz check patterns. But it's a "hm, ok, sure" kind of interesting.","time":1777921640,"type":"comment"},{"by":"stephbook","id":48015434,"parent":48012162,"text":"Tenant scoping is important. Just ask Microsoft, didn't they have one right at bing.com?\nOh, just every Bing user is vulnerable to have all Microsoft data (o365 emails for example) hacked. No biggie.
https://www.wiz.io/blog/azure-active-directory-bing-misconfi...","time":1777931091,"type":"comment"},{"by":"neilv","id":48014021,"kids":[48014306,48014270],"parent":48012162,"text":"Two questions prompted by this disclosure:
1. I didn't see mention of a bug bounty program giving limited authorization. How do independent researchers do this with legal safety? Especially when DoD is involved?
2. If a researcher discovered a vulnerability at a DoD contractor, and the contractor didn't seem to be resolving the problem, is there a DoD contact point that would be effective and safe for the researcher to report it?","time":1777924205,"type":"comment"},{"by":"bryancoxwell","id":48012923,"kids":[48014691,48017508,48013210,48014693,48013097],"parent":48012162,"text":"> Their initial reply from the CEO: "I would love to hear what the vulnerability is, but I assume you want to get paid for it. Is that the play?"
Well that’s pretty damning.","time":1777919707,"type":"comment"},{"by":"tardedmeme","id":48013344,"kids":[48015844,48016354],"parent":48012162,"text":"I wonder if this is how Handala group recently stole the list of service members.
How do people find these vulnerabilities within the immense scope of the whole internet? Are they going around with some kind of generic API scanner that discovers APIs?","time":1777921292,"type":"comment"},{"by":"BobbyTables2","id":48015957,"parent":48012162,"text":"Feels like they were too nice. After 90 days of no response, why not just go full disclosure on them?
The CEO seems more interested in insulting people than securing his company’s product.","time":1777934786,"type":"comment"},{"by":"ryanisnan","id":48012737,"parent":48012162,"text":"Yikes, Schemata and that delinquent CEO should be held accountable.","time":1777918967,"type":"comment"},{"by":"bearsyankees","id":48012851,"parent":48012162,"text":"https://x.com/strix_ai/status/2051361018450948511","time":1777919400,"type":"comment"},{"by":"sailfast","id":48014274,"parent":48012162,"text":"Would be fascinated to know if this went through competitive procurement or if it was one of those Hegseth “let’s be lethal and ship broken shit to the warfighter” procurements.","time":1777925304,"type":"comment"},{"by":"icedchai","id":48014260,"parent":48012162,"text":"Was the app vibe coded?","time":1777925242,"type":"comment"},{"by":"rectang","id":48012781,"kids":[48012830,48014391],"parent":48012162,"text":"a16z = "Andreessen Horowitz", for those not in the know. (The acronym is not expanded in the article. EDIT: OP has fixed the article.)","time":1777919160,"type":"comment"},{"by":"DougN7","id":48012771,"kids":[48012792,48012785],"parent":48012162,"text":"Would it be possible to stop using aXXb nomenclature within the titles? Some of us aren't hip enough to know what all of them mean.","time":1777919125,"type":"comment"},{"by":"GhostDriftInc","dead":true,"id":48016779,"parent":48012162,"text":"[flagged]","time":1777942466,"type":"comment"},{"by":"SkyGuard_Lead","dead":true,"id":48015115,"parent":48012162,"text":"[flagged]","time":1777929407,"type":"comment"},{"by":"testing_auth","dead":true,"id":48014991,"parent":48012162,"text":"[dead]","time":1777928721,"type":"comment"}]},{"by":"littlexsparkee","descendants":261,"id":48009983,"kids":[48012294,48011721,48019550,48011173,48011664,48013199,48011999,48012415,48011764,48019253,48017112,48011722,48018335,48018925,48012902,48016539,48014220,48016291,48012957,48019002,48017312,48015052,48012948,48017093,48012722,48016596,48012587,48013088,48011531,48016959,48016859,48011950,48011644,48013059,48016736,48011449,48016129,48016331,48012169,48014783,48012153,48011782,48011041,48012111,48012372,48015836],"score":275,"time":1777908766,"title":"Does Employment Slow Cognitive Decline? Evidence from Labor Market Shocks","type":"story","url":"https://www.nber.org/papers/w35117","comments":[{"by":"b00ty4breakfast","id":48012294,"kids":[48015803,48013760,48016279,48014084,48012954,48018875,48016228,48017809,48019435,48012968,48012617,48014860,48012952,48018749,48017771,48013231,48015347,48015195,48012622,48012702,48013451],"parent":48009983,"text":"The problem isn't retirement per se, it is that people don't have things to occupy themselves with. They retire and they vegetate. I worked with a lady that was in her 70s who was deathly afraid of retiring because she didn't have anything to do. That's beyond depressing to me, to be incapable of even conceiving of doing something that doesn't involve going to a job.
We have created people that never develop as human beings outside the context of their being economic entities in the workforce and that's not something to celebrate.","time":1777917251,"type":"comment"},{"by":"nate","id":48011721,"kids":[48012137,48012130,48012086,48016868,48012987,48014623],"parent":48009983,"text":"We probably all have anecdotal evidence here, but my father is a perfect example of being no longer employed and a ton of stuff declining. Yes, cognitively, but a lot of health. We're talking not just your "career". He was a commercial real estate agent. But in his 80s he was working at Menards as a greeter and stocker. And it kept him busy. Getting out of the house. Figuring things out. Meeting and talking to people. Walking. Talking. Scheduling things. He'd even tell us that if he stopped, things would just descend. And he was so right.
He had to stop to help take more care of my mom, and quickly, he just fell out of all these things. Cognitively. Health. Ability to do anything decision wise or to better himself just tanked.
Sample size of 1. A ton of confounding variables. But definitely wasn't his choice to stop working at a place because of health. The poor health came after being forced to quit.
Does make me worry about "taking it easy" when I get older whatever that means :)","time":1777915071,"type":"comment"},{"by":"jpfromlondon","id":48019550,"parent":48009983,"text":"My own job is accelerating my cognitive decline and destroying my mental wellbeing.","time":1777969637,"type":"comment"},{"by":"goda90","id":48011173,"kids":[48011519,48011495,48016882],"parent":48009983,"text":"I believe there have been studies into how social life impacts longevity, and probably cognitive decline as well. For some people, like my great-grandmother who kept working well into her 80s by choice, jobs can be a big social outlet. For others a job can be very socially isolating. Those factors probably matter a lot.
Side note: I'm sure we'll see research into these areas used to propose delaying retirement age more in the near future.","time":1777913064,"type":"comment"},{"by":"dec0dedab0de","id":48011664,"kids":[48011810,48018718],"parent":48009983,"text":"I think employment may set us up for rapid cognitive decline when we finally become unemployed. As in, working 40+ hours a week makes us over-value "vegging out", which sets us up for failure post-employment.","time":1777914887,"type":"comment"},{"by":"999900000999","id":48013199,"parent":48009983,"text":"Allegedly my great grandfather was building a deck at the age of 90.
This might also be survivorship bias.
I’d like to say people need purpose and challenges. This is probably why rates of depression tend to be much lower in “poor” countries where people have to depend on each other more.
In the west everything is an abstraction. If you would imagine a baker in a small town, if she doesn’t feel like baking that day, the town doesn’t get bread.
Therefore, everyone in the town has an incentive to actually check on her, and get her back on her feet.
In the modern west who cares, surely another bakery will provide.
I believe automation will reduce the need for human labor very very soon.
We can all find meaning in arts, dance and play. If not just the gift of this experience.
Or we can point fingers as no one has work or money","time":1777920760,"type":"comment"},{"by":"tombert","id":48011999,"kids":[48012057,48012040],"parent":48009983,"text":"Interesting.
I haven't read the paper yet so forgive a bit of ignorance here, but I feel like when I'm unemployed, I actively spend all my time trying to learn new things. This is no small part because otherwise I get depressed because I am spending all my time on YouTube and there are only so many "documentaries" about Lolcows that I can stomach, so I dive head first into projects, usually buying a few cheap textbooks in the process to play with new things. The days are way too long if I don't have something interesting to occupy my time, and I feel less guilty if that time is spent doing something quasi-intellectual instead of playing Donkey Kong Country again.
I didn't think I was an outlier with this, but maybe I am?","time":1777916094,"type":"comment"},{"by":"gcheong","id":48012415,"parent":48009983,"text":"I would hypothesize that this is strongly correlated to where a person's sense of purpose comes from. If someone gets most of their sense of purpose from their job then you would expect to see a decline once they leave their job if they can't replace it with something else. For those whose sense of purpose is derived mainly outside of work and can continue to derive that sense of purpose in retirement, I would expect less of a decline in retirement other than normal aging.","time":1777917672,"type":"comment"},{"by":"giantg2","id":48011764,"kids":[48012855],"parent":48009983,"text":"I feel like this is less about employment and more a factor of money and engagement.
You need some amount of money for good health insurance, healthier foods, lower stress, etc. You need engagement, but that could be found in volunteering and sufficiently complex hobbies.
The trend seen with employment cycles might just be picking up that many people lack these.","time":1777915232,"type":"comment"},{"by":"tokkkie","id":48019253,"parent":48009983,"text":"Most people don't need a 0 or 100 work-life balance.\nMaybe just 10% work and 90% life is enough.","time":1777966830,"type":"comment"},{"by":"didip","id":48017112,"parent":48009983,"text":"As someone who recently retired early, you really need to have a solid game plan on what you want to do with all the time you have. Spend a solid 3-6 months planning and mocking your post retirement days while still working.
The more detailed the plan the better. If you want to go to the gym, what will you do there and for how long and how many days a week?
If you want to have a tech side project, how many hours do you plan on spending on this project? And be reasonable. Don't trade one burnout over another.
If you are planning to learn something new, what are those? and don't just learn one thing. 8 hours plus is a crazy amount of time.
One of those plan should include making new friends post retirement, revolving around activities that are not work related.
It is far too easy to lose track of time without a brand new schedule to fill the void.","time":1777945331,"type":"comment"},{"by":"Bender","id":48011722,"kids":[48013306,48012560,48012232],"parent":48009983,"text":"I've been retired for about 5 years and I am just as loony now as I was when employed. HN, my own silly hobby sites, flirting with the gals in town and wildlife keep me active.","time":1777915072,"type":"comment"},{"by":"m463","id":48018335,"parent":48009983,"text":"Go and read the book or audiobook "Younger Next Year" great book. Explains the biology of aging, how to delay/reverse it and how to retire well. Good background and good advice.","time":1777958170,"type":"comment"},{"by":"kleiba2","id":48018925,"parent":48009983,"text":"The job I'm currently at definitely does the opposite.","time":1777963588,"type":"comment"},{"by":"kelvinjps10","id":48012902,"parent":48009983,"text":"It reminds of my grandparents that refuse to stop working my grandma 65 and grandfather 73. My grandma has like a stand where she sells candies and coffee and for her is just a way for socializing. And my grandpa he's still trying businesses out he thinks that there is still time for him to become rich, he's still very sharp and active he currently sells car tools and he's walking everyday","time":1777919625,"type":"comment"},{"by":"harrall","id":48016539,"parent":48009983,"text":"I was under the impression that you delay cognitive decline (and keep brain plasticity) by learning new things.
So you need to be learning new skills, trying new sports, entering new circumstances continuously. If you’re good at something already, it’s not enough.
Employment is one of many ways of keeping things fresh because it’s easy but I see no reason why you can’t keep yourself busy too.","time":1777939773,"type":"comment"},{"by":"tsoukase","id":48014220,"parent":48009983,"text":"Dementia, at least of Alzheimer's type, starts at least 20 years before symptom onset and is multifactorial, so much that no single factor plays a role ("explains the variability") more than 5%. Employment, as almost all other factors, like having family/kids, higher education, wealth etc etc, might be a correlative or a confounding variable, depending on the study design because the disease mechanisms are so long and convoluted.
In the egg and chicken dilemma, I believe that the cognitive decline causes the social inactivity and not the reverse. Get your retirement because that will not cause your dementia.","time":1777925063,"type":"comment"},{"by":"hirako2000","id":48016291,"parent":48009983,"text":"What many comments miss is that society is heavily structured around work.
If we didn't work, or simply worked far less, we wouldn't be atomized units not quite finding what to do.
There would be more structure of volunteering projects, cafés would be laid out for people having time, instead of for quick grab. Fastfood and drive through may end up being far less common.","time":1777937249,"type":"comment"},{"by":"whatever1","id":48012957,"parent":48009983,"text":"Averages make sense only when the distribution looks like a normal.
But after 60ish the health of people has such a high variance that it doesn’t make sense to talk about the average retiree.
Some of them are healthy and sharp. Others have disabling health problems","time":1777919843,"type":"comment"},{"by":"danielovichdk","id":48019002,"parent":48009983,"text":"I think better when I have been off work for 4 weeks and beyond. My mind is dancing into new and glorious places, not being caught or dumbed down by idiotic automative repetitions, inhumane and corporate politics so dumb, walled-off-elite and cargo-cult like that no one can ever convince me that humans in an office space has decreased declining cognitive abilities.
People in the workforce are dumber than people outside, no doubt.","time":1777964393,"type":"comment"},{"deleted":true,"id":48017312,"parent":48009983,"time":1777947011,"type":"comment"},{"by":"Havoc","id":48015052,"parent":48009983,"text":"Regardless of whether this is true I do think there is a risk of overdoing it.
My dad firmly believes in the "when people quit work they decline" theory. Which may be fair, but he's not in great health and still charging hard. Definitely think you can overdo that & end up working till you drop","time":1777929062,"type":"comment"},{"by":"TheGRS","id":48012948,"parent":48009983,"text":"I know I interact with people on the daily with my remote job, but would love to know if that's potentially an issue too. Decent reason to get back in the office. I also miss my daily office bike rides to a certain extent, at least it was healthy for me, now I do exercise by choice and I don't always keep up with it.","time":1777919816,"type":"comment"},{"by":"zoom6628","id":48017093,"parent":48009983,"text":"Retirement is an artificial modern construct to create jobs. People are supposed to be active until they die. Hobbies are just a replacement activity. I have no intention of retiring (over 60 already). I work in tech and learning new skills and my income feeds and houses my family and pays for my running shoes.
As other commenters have noted folk in some places don't have anything but work. That is a global social issue that needs addressing first.","time":1777945224,"type":"comment"},{"by":"logickkk1","id":48012722,"parent":48009983,"text":"I don't think this is "work is medicine." It's that too much of normal life depends on having a job, so policy lands on working longer.","time":1777918916,"type":"comment"},{"by":"trashface","id":48016596,"parent":48009983,"text":"Or people who have cognitive issues have trouble staying employed...","time":1777940329,"type":"comment"},{"by":"ecshafer","id":48012587,"parent":48009983,"text":"There have been studies that show that elderly who interact with children are cognitively healthier compared to their counter parts.","time":1777918338,"type":"comment"},{"by":"gste","id":48013088,"kids":[48013671],"parent":48009983,"text":"Is there any evidence in this paper or elsewhere that this is causation rather than correlation?
For example, it seems logical to me that people with worse health and failing mental faculties will already be feeling more motivation to retire earlier, as opposed to very healthy people who will keep on working forever. That would be pure correlation","time":1777920294,"type":"comment"},{"by":"jdw64","id":48011531,"parent":48009983,"text":"I finally found the reason why my cognitive function feels like that of a 7years old child.","time":1777914330,"type":"comment"},{"by":"da_chicken","id":48016959,"parent":48009983,"text":"This still smells like the kind of paper that a think tank would fund to justify their billionaire-backed policy that social security should be abandoned and the retirement age moved to 75.","time":1777944078,"type":"comment"},{"by":"lenerdenator","id":48016859,"parent":48009983,"text":"More evidence that the US desperately needs to raise the retirement benefits age to 70 or 75.
Memory care is one of the most expensive types of eldercare.","time":1777943151,"type":"comment"},{"by":"bitwize","id":48011950,"parent":48009983,"text":"Anecdata: My dad started experiencing memory problems in his early 70s. When he got back into engineering as a part time consultant, those memory problems went away.","time":1777915907,"type":"comment"},{"by":"rts_cts","id":48011644,"kids":[48011682],"parent":48009983,"text":"A strangely click-baity title for an academic paper. What's next? "Four crazy macroeconomic predictions. You won't believe what's number four!"","time":1777914773,"type":"comment"},{"by":"dominictorresmo","id":48013059,"parent":48009983,"text":"brain is the same as a muscle: if you don't use it he will deteriorate","time":1777920186,"type":"comment"},{"by":"cathyreisenwitz","id":48016736,"parent":48009983,"text":"I bet another reason women suffer less cognitive decline from early retirement than men is that women are less lonely and more integrated into their extended families and communities.","time":1777942001,"type":"comment"},{"by":"LeCompteSftware","id":48011449,"kids":[48011703,48011662],"parent":48009983,"text":"It's 48 pages and I haven't read it fully, but it seems almost childlike that the paper doesn't address the obvious confounding variable:
"Does Unemployment Make It More Likely for Late Middle-Aged People, Particularly Men, To Drink Alcohol? Evidence From We Obviously Should Have Considered This In The Paper, Perhaps We Are Too Sheltered"
To be clear I am not being pedantic. The paper explicitly endorses the policy of pushing back the retirement age specifically because doing so likely reduces cognitive decline. I agree with this, in the same sense that shooting car thieves in the street without a trial reduces automotive theft. "Reducing cognitive decline in people near retirement age" might be better met with psychiatric intervention, so that unemployed people also get some of the benefits. Ignoring this confounding variable and prattling about "causal explanation" - while endorsing the policy of snatching away people's pensions until they work a few more years - is evil born from ignorance.","time":1777914022,"type":"comment"},{"by":"doc_ick","id":48016129,"parent":48009983,"text":"How much of this article is written by ai?","time":1777935988,"type":"comment"},{"by":"SilentM68","id":48016331,"parent":48009983,"text":"The primary argument of this NBER working paper is that "employment, particularly near retirement age, can slow the rate of cognitive decline."
Would this not depend on the type of work being done and type of working conditions? Doesn't working in a boring, unchallenging, repetitive, dead-end job, dull the senses? Also, now a day, people continue to work even into their 70s, 80s, and even 90s, at least those that can find work. I don't see many people opting to retire when they have bills to pay.
Stan Lee used to say something along the lines of: “I’m not working, I’m playing!”\nIf the job feels like fun, then the primary argument makes more sense to me. Based on past experience, however, I can relate to the later as my senses definitely got dulled, add to that compounding age-related health problems which did not help.
I try to do some Sudoku & Mahjongg puzzles at least twice a day, in my Linux machine, just to keep my mind awake.","time":1777937579,"type":"comment"},{"by":"keybored","id":48012169,"parent":48009983,"text":"> Nevertheless, our group-average findings, if replicated by others, would hold clear policy implications. Federal efforts to promote work at pre-retirement ages would not only reduce reliance on SSDI and enhance retirement security, but would also promote healthy aging through delaying cognitive decline.
Fuck you.
Christopher Lasch wrote that our “culture of narcissism” detests aging. Unsurprisingly we, the narcissists, are horrified when we ourselves become old. Because there is hardly anything left for us.
You can subtract pure biology, i.e. normal bodily degradation. But you can also subtract respect, esteem, wisdom (because who cares what grandpa has to say?), family (see care homes), and socializing.[1] You’re not an “asset” (to use familiar language[2]) to anyone. Just a burden.
What becomes the solution to any of that? No, no. We don’t need solutions to old people problems. We need solutions to them being burdens.
So how to make them less of a drag on our collective selves: encourage them to work at their shitty jobs for longer.
[1] See the old man who meets you again after six months and talks way too much about what he’s up to. Does he have any other outlets?
[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47873477","time":1777916817,"type":"comment"},{"by":"psychoslave","id":48014783,"parent":48009983,"text":"No, but the lake of activity and intellectual challenges will certainly accelerate it, even for someone middle age with an official employment! Wrote this just by reading the title, and past the summary it clearly lean into that direction.","time":1777927812,"type":"comment"},{"by":"animitronix","id":48012153,"parent":48009983,"text":"Classic "use it or lose it". No big surprise here.","time":1777916769,"type":"comment"},{"by":"josefritzishere","id":48011782,"kids":[48013622],"parent":48009983,"text":"This feels like propaganda, like a peice from the Economist.","time":1777915321,"type":"comment"},{"by":"random_savv","dead":true,"id":48011041,"parent":48009983,"text":"[flagged]","time":1777912623,"type":"comment"},{"by":"summarybot","dead":true,"id":48012111,"parent":48009983,"text":"[flagged]","time":1777916641,"type":"comment"},{"by":"moneycantbuy","id":48012372,"parent":48009983,"text":"Does slavery slow cognitive decline? Capitalist propaganda says being a wagie is good for us. That being said people are so indoctrinated that they have no idea what to do without an employer. pretty fucked up society and culture we now find ourselves in.","time":1777917529,"type":"comment"},{"by":"Unbeliever69","id":48015836,"parent":48009983,"text":"I voluntarily retired at age 55 after a startup I was a principal in for five years ran out of money (raising funds was not my responsibility). Having worked from home during most of that time, and having nobody to report to other than myself, I decided I couldn't go back to the grind. I was fortunate enough that my wife earns enough and has good enough benefits that I don't need to work. It took a lot of paying down debt and massaging our finances, but it's worked out swimmingly. We're doing far better on one income than we ever did on two. Obviously, at my age, there are no kids in the picture. Not only am I her personal assistant (she's a teacher), but I take care of the household, which takes a ton of stress off her plate.
I could see a world where cognitive decline takes place, but it's actually been the opposite for me. When I'm not fulfilling my responsibilities as my wife's assistant and taking care of the household, I have many hours during the day to pursue my own passions. I've also been much more structured with my time. I actively journal. I spend time with friends and family. I occasionally do things for fun like fly fishing. I set aside a specific time to read every day for pleasure and learning. I go to bed at a set time and wake up at 5am. I probably log anywhere from 8 to 16 hours a day doing agentic AI coding and design in Claude Code. Freed from the treadmill of employment and the grind of keeping up with the fast pace of deeply learning new technology, I feel sharper than I have in decades. It also doesn't hurt that my passion projects are generating income, which keeps me highly motivated and mentally engaged.
I'm sure those of you that read this probably think that I didn't retire. I think an argument can be made for and against this. I feel retired. I just don't fill all of my time with leisure which I think is the trap that many retired people fall into. The things that I do to keep mentally sharp are intentional choices. It just so happens that those things are things that resemble work.","time":1777933958,"type":"comment"}]},{"by":"dreadsword","descendants":34,"id":48018080,"kids":[48018608,48018980,48019527,48018862,48019093,48019393,48018884,48019196,48018979,48019118,48018762,48018763,48019540],"score":77,"time":1777955784,"title":"Kids bypass age verification with fake moustaches","type":"story","url":"https://www.theregister.com/2026/05/04/uk_online_safety_act_age_checks_subvert/","comments":[{"by":"eszed","id":48018608,"kids":[48018747],"parent":48018080,"text":"Of course they do. Only fools expected anything else.
Does else anyone remember the "age verification" on '80s video games? Some of them were hilarious. I think it was Leisure Suit Larry that asked multiple choice history questions that I guess were meant to be impossible for fifth graders to guess. I was the local history nerd, so I remember getting calls from classmates, like "we're trying to get into a game; when was JFK assassinated?" If I didn't know I'd ask my dad, who never knew he was contributing to the delinquency of (other) minors.","time":1777960702,"type":"comment"},{"by":"Morromist","id":48018980,"kids":[48019240],"parent":48018080,"text":"The next age verification tech will involve checking tallness so we'll have kids standing on eachother's shoulders in a big trenchcoat to do the very adult act of installing linux.","time":1777964163,"type":"comment"},{"by":"TheServitor","id":48019527,"parent":48018080,"text":"I process the manual ID reviews for a small system. I don't get many, but I have seen some funny stuff. Last week a kid tried to use a still from a Spiderman movie.","time":1777969405,"type":"comment"},{"by":"nick486","id":48018862,"parent":48018080,"text":"I guess thats one important upside of age verification systems I didn't think of. They encourage creativity and a healthy disregard for stupid rules.","time":1777963080,"type":"comment"},{"by":"zeec123","id":48019093,"kids":[48019160,48019141],"parent":48018080,"text":"The result will be age verification with a passport or ID "to protect the children". Probably this was the goal all along.","time":1777965367,"type":"comment"},{"by":"sandeepkd","id":48019393,"parent":48018080,"text":"The only good justification of it can be that the companies can claim that the age verification was done as per Terms of Service, so in the future no parent or parent group can come after them for the content. Along with better targeted advertising by identifying the target audiences.
Logically parents are probably best suited to gate the content for their children how they see it fit.","time":1777968382,"type":"comment"},{"by":"jl6","id":48018884,"parent":48018080,"text":"Maybe age verification will encourage kids to be more social in person, because they’ll need to have at least two inside the trenchcoat.","time":1777963293,"type":"comment"},{"by":"pkphilip","id":48019196,"parent":48018080,"text":"The governments know fully well that simple checks for age verification will be bypassed. So they will "fix" this issue by demanding a digital id.","time":1777966332,"type":"comment"},{"by":"kleiba2","id":48018979,"kids":[48019091,48019044],"parent":48018080,"text":"They also use VPNs, as anyone would have predicted within two seconds.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn72ydj70g5o
Consequently, we're now discussing VPN bans for under 18 year olds <insert facepalm emoji>.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn438z3ejxyo","time":1777964149,"type":"comment"},{"by":"harladsinsteden","id":48019118,"parent":48018080,"text":"Life finds a way...","time":1777965509,"type":"comment"},{"by":"charcircuit","id":48018762,"kids":[48019418,48018833,48018779],"parent":48018080,"text":"One big problem is that the verification is trying to estimate your age instead of looking up who is the actual person and then checking what the age is of that person. If the lookup returns that the face is that of a video game character it should reject as opposed to trying to estimate the age of that character.","time":1777962182,"type":"comment"},{"by":"i_think_so","id":48018763,"parent":48018080,"text":"Well of course. What else did they expect kids were going to do? This whole idea was braindead from the start.","time":1777962186,"type":"comment"},{"by":"c16","id":48019540,"parent":48018080,"text":"> Stronger action is needed
Because of course it is /s.
But on a real note, we all grew up with the full uncensored internet: goatse, 4chan, liveleak and the rest. What has changed? Or has the reality of the internet now become a little more mainstream, and we're now realising it's not the technology which is the problem, but the humans that use it?","time":1777969534,"type":"comment"}]},{"by":"kencausey","descendants":10,"id":48014868,"kids":[48017562,48018268,48018253,48017470,48017483,48018592],"score":60,"time":1777928179,"title":"When Networking Doesn't Work","type":"story","url":"https://www.os2museum.com/wp/when-networking-doesnt-work/","comments":[{"by":"deathanatos","id":48017562,"kids":[48017801,48018945],"parent":48014868,"text":"But what was the checksum? Like the actual, specific value?
The Factorio devs found[1] that some devices do fail to compute checksums, in that they compute the checksum just fine, but they're doing something stupid with some values and so checksums of 0x0000 or 0xFFFF (the two values from the FFF) cause packet loss.
In any protocol that, when the packet repeats, repeats it with even the slightest permutation (different request ID, timestamp, sequence number, etc.), that will be enough to jiggle the checksum to a new value (probably), and then the protocol will keep going with only a minor blip that probably goes unnoticed.
But if the packet is deterministic, only then you hit the problem.
> calculating the UDP checksum is not exactly rocket science.
I've seen things that trivial get messed up. "Just read the standard" is a high bar, sometimes. (Though the above is probably "I dual purposed a u16 without realizing it didn't have any available niches for that…")
[1]: https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-176","time":1777949621,"type":"comment"},{"by":"userbinator","id":48018268,"kids":[48019144],"parent":48014868,"text":"Without disassembling and tracing the Intel Windows drivers (something I don’t feel like doing)
As someone who generally doesn't use AI in software development nor RE, this is one thing that I'd recommend trying one on to see what it can do: the problem is clearly defined and a solution is easily validated, and it's a problem you're not intersted in digging deeper yourself. The other comment here about 0000 and FFFF checksums seems like a good place to start.
A little more digging found this discussion from TODAY regarding what looks like a very similar bug in one of Intel's Linux NIC drivers: https://lkml.org/lkml/2026/5/4/1886","time":1777957562,"type":"comment"},{"by":"stroebs","id":48018253,"parent":48014868,"text":"I came across this very same issue with fika, a community-made mod for Escape from Tarkov. One player would consistently fail to join games and it took ages to figure out the different components that were failing. The code intentionally sent the join message 4 times in quick succession, which triggered the DoS protection on the internet firewall. Ok, disabled that. The next issue was the packets were being interfered with by the ALG on the internet firewall, so disabled that too. Then the last final hurdle was the Rx offloading on the Intel NIC which was the exact same issue with the checksum being set to all 0’s or all F’s.
What made it confusing at the time is the join packet would sometimes be accepted and passed through to the game, so it prompted further digging into why.","time":1777957432,"type":"comment"},{"by":"bombcar","id":48017470,"kids":[48019372,48018664],"parent":48014868,"text":"It'd be interesting to see what the wrong checksum it calculates is ...","time":1777948516,"type":"comment"},{"by":"nubinetwork","id":48017483,"parent":48014868,"text":"Interesting... I've heard enabling tx/rx offloading is actually beneficial, turns out that's not always the case...","time":1777948689,"type":"comment"},{"deleted":true,"id":48018592,"parent":48014868,"time":1777960499,"type":"comment"}]},{"by":"luu","descendants":0,"id":48002890,"score":4,"time":1777852385,"title":"Why I Created phpc.tv","type":"story","url":"https://afilina.com/why-phpc-tv","comments":[]},{"by":"antirez","descendants":91,"id":48009172,"kids":[48010532,48010722,48012127,48009549,48011622,48019005,48011498,48017524,48012115,48012175,48010383,48018470,48015364,48015420,48011928,48010669,48009656,48010738,48010382,48011185,48011600,48011571,48016149],"score":275,"time":1777904587,"title":"Redis array: short story of a long development process","type":"story","url":"https://antirez.com/news/164","comments":[{"by":"localhoster","id":48010532,"kids":[48010869,48011245,48017409,48016817,48012235,48011285],"parent":48009172,"text":"Let's make it very clear - this is the original creator of redis, or one of them.
He is not "your avg dev" and it took him 4 months with llm.
This is not a seal of approval for you to go and command all your developers to move to Claude code/codex/any other ai coding tool fully.
I'm looking at you - any avg CEO of a startup.","time":1777910948,"type":"comment"},{"by":"wood_spirit","id":48010722,"kids":[48011486,48013434,48011136,48010884],"parent":48009172,"text":"Sharing my current MO:
I start with a high level design md doc which an AI helps write. Then I ask another AI - whether the same model without the context, or another model - to critique it and spot bugs, gaps and omissions. It always finds obvious in hindsight stuff. So I ask it to summarize its findings and I paste that into the first AI and ask its opinions. We form an agreed change and make it and carry on this adversarial round robin until no model can suggest anything that seems weighty.
I then ask the AI to make a plan. And I round robin that through a bunch of AIs adversarially as well. In the end, the plan looks solid.
Then the end to end test cases plan and so on.
By the end of the first day or week or month - depending on the scale of the system - we are ready to code.
And as code gets made I paste that into other AIs with the spec and plan and ask them to spot bugs, omissions and gaps too and so on. Continually using other AI to check on the main one implementing.
And of course you have to go read the code because I have found it that AI misses polishes.","time":1777911546,"type":"comment"},{"by":"tibbar","id":48012127,"kids":[48012554,48012369],"parent":48009172,"text":"Reviewing 22,000 lines of code, even from antirez, with this complex of a feature set and minimal PR description sounds like a nightmare. One starts to see why major open-source software like Postgres tends to be developed on a mailing list, with intermediate design decisions discussed by the community, separate patches for different related features, incremental review, and then a spaced release cadence.","time":1777916698,"type":"comment"},{"by":"SuperV1234","id":48009549,"kids":[48009694,48009668],"parent":48009172,"text":"Closely matches my own experiences with current SOTA AI. Extremely useful collaborator, far from being a replacement for human intelligence and creativity.","time":1777906655,"type":"comment"},{"by":"gurgeous","id":48011622,"kids":[48011778,48012460],"parent":48009172,"text":"Thanks for adding this. Excited about array/regex, also very interested in your experience using LLMs to stretch your abilities. There are many of us laboring quietly on various projects attempting the same. "Vibe coding" (and the backlash) doesn't really capture how we work.","time":1777914703,"type":"comment"},{"by":"ardline","id":48019005,"parent":48009172,"text":"Solid work. The devil's in the operational complexity, but this looks manageable.","time":1777964416,"type":"comment"},{"by":"sylvinus","id":48011498,"kids":[48011585],"parent":48009172,"text":"Thanks for the write up. Always interesting to see how very senior developers interact with AI these days.
@antirez: Introducing a regex feature that late into the project for a seemingly unrelated feature feels a bit weird? Can you explain more your rationale on that? thanks!","time":1777914190,"type":"comment"},{"deleted":true,"id":48017524,"parent":48009172,"time":1777949130,"type":"comment"},{"by":"ericpauley","id":48012115,"kids":[48012535],"parent":48009172,"text":"Couldn't some of the use cases presented for this be accomplished with ZSETs? I get the performance angle, but it seems that this could have been accomplished without the new API surface by selectively optimizing ZSET storage for dense values (in the same way that Arrays selectively use sparse representations).
The RE component is interesting, but as commentary here has noted it seems orthogonal to the array data structure (i.e., usable on others as well). Does this not make more sense to accomplish with Lua scripting? Or if performance of Lua is an issue perhaps abstracting OP to be composable on top of any command that returns a range of values.
I say this with reverence for Antirez as the expert in this space, but some of this new feature set feels like the sort of solution that I tend to see arise from LLM-driven development; namely creation of new functionality instead of enhancement of existing, plus overcomplicating features when composition with others might be more effective.","time":1777916647,"type":"comment"},{"by":"thallavajhula","id":48012175,"kids":[48013071,48014446],"parent":48009172,"text":"Salvatore really wants to popularize the term Automatic Programming/Coding it seems. (https://antirez.com/news/159)","time":1777916830,"type":"comment"},{"by":"jdw64","id":48010383,"kids":[48010460],"parent":48009172,"text":"It feels like Redis is becoming a small database, which seems to make it more convenient to use. Could you add more examples that clarify where the boundary should be?","time":1777910361,"type":"comment"},{"by":"ozozozd","id":48018470,"parent":48009172,"text":"That was too short a story @antirez!","time":1777959343,"type":"comment"},{"by":"shay_ker","id":48015364,"parent":48009172,"text":"antirez: i'm curious, with the final code, have you experimented with effectively one-shotting the final result? i wonder if we can get there with GEPA, and maybe there's something we can learn in how to elicit/prompt these models to get what we want.
or maybe the conclusion is that model providers need to clean up their training data!","time":1777930669,"type":"comment"},{"by":"srinikhilr","id":48015420,"parent":48009172,"text":"Anyone know how to get the specification mentioned in the blog post? Don't see one in the linked PR.","time":1777930956,"type":"comment"},{"by":"nitwit005","id":48011928,"kids":[48011975],"parent":48009172,"text":"The use of C stdlib localization functions (toupper, mbrtowc, etc), makes me suspect if there will be some regex behavior differences between systems or locales.","time":1777915849,"type":"comment"},{"by":"ok123456","id":48010669,"kids":[48010680],"parent":48009172,"text":"Is this an apologia since the PR is +22,212 -34?","time":1777911362,"type":"comment"},{"by":"gbalduzzi","id":48009656,"kids":[48009681],"parent":48009172,"text":"Is it possible to see the specification file you created and used for AI assisted development?
Very cool anyway! Can I expect a youtube video about this soon?","time":1777907189,"type":"comment"},{"by":"dsecurity49","id":48010738,"parent":48009172,"text":"AI is a fantastic co-pilot, but you still need to know how to fly the plane when the edge cases start hitting the fan.","time":1777911584,"type":"comment"},{"by":"leetrout","id":48010382,"kids":[48010480,48010481],"parent":48009172,"text":"On safari mobile it's a page with the title header and a footer. Theres no content rendering.","time":1777910349,"type":"comment"},{"by":"epolanski","id":48011185,"kids":[48012629],"parent":48009172,"text":"Got few questions:
- the project essentially spans almost 3 different (albeit minor) generations of LLMs. Have you noticed major differences in their personas, behavior, output for that specific use case?
- when using AI for feedback, have you ever considered giving it different "personalities"? I have few skills that role play as very different reviewers with their own different (by design conflicting) personalities. I found this to improve the output, but also to be extremely tiring and to often have high noise ratio.
- when did you, if ever, felt that AI was slowing you down massively compared to just doing it yourself (e.g. some specific bug or performance or design fix)? Are there recurring patterns?
- conversely, how often did AI had moments where it genuinely gave you feedback or ideas that would've not come to you?
- last: do you have specific prompts, skills, setups, etc to work on specific repositories?","time":1777913101,"type":"comment"},{"by":"simonw","id":48011600,"kids":[48012529],"parent":48009172,"text":"I vibe coded up an interactive playground against a WebAssembly build of the new array features: https://tools.simonwillison.net/redis-array","time":1777914645,"type":"comment"},{"by":"ftruzzi","dead":true,"id":48011571,"parent":48009172,"text":"[dead]","time":1777914531,"type":"comment"},{"by":"jaunt7","id":48016149,"kids":[48016996],"parent":48009172,"text":"In short, Redis can't be trusted any more.
Who is going to do an LLM free fork?","time":1777936119,"type":"comment"}]},{"by":"thitran","descendants":631,"id":48007438,"kids":[48008672,48019592,48015391,48008195,48018707,48008383,48008951,48008132,48008976,48008040,48009746,48011230,48019513,48009211,48008466,48011367,48019212,48007967,48009174,48008620,48014471,48008018,48010195,48008638,48009649,48008216,48016361,48016032,48017936,48016328,48017070,48010433,48018285,48010182,48009230,48017347,48009101,48010346,48008361,48008204,48008905,48011042,48009437,48008458,48014745,48008196,48018238,48009380,48010306,48016747,48008521,48009834,48011894,48017635,48008880,48010579,48010097,48008424,48012852,48010813,48014082,48017475,48009200,48009621,48008941,48009908,48008095,48008766,48012085,48015478,48016005,48010687,48009932,48009464,48009060,48010282,48011824,48009589,48009434,48017081,48008774,48011998,48014436,48008539,48008406,48015572,48014401,48018781,48011003,48010287,48008304,48009786,48010561,48009490,48008412,48008042,48014792,48008151,48015708,48012480,48014444,48008819,48009662,48009508,48008321,48009821,48018208,48012875,48008306,48013033,48008133,48017356,48017565,48011328,48012472,48012037,48013720,48009132,48009750,48015757,48015671,48015435,48010339,48014399,48011394,48009961,48009606,48009236,48009661,48008376,48008349,48009620,48009756,48008875,48015855,48016101,48014237,48017546,48008258,48009891,48008442,48009844,48008655,48008944,48008646,48016006,48010783,48014951,48013267,48007965,48009037],"score":1333,"time":1777894862,"title":"Talking to strangers at the gym","type":"story","url":"https://thienantran.com/talking-to-35-strangers-at-the-gym/","comments":[{"by":"mtlynch","id":48008672,"kids":[48008887,48009985,48019344,48019230,48013036,48010269,48009616,48014523,48008741,48013810,48010924,48009536,48013690,48013122,48015445,48009496,48015628,48008732,48009732],"parent":48007438,"text":"One of the things I like about this is that OP is giving people genuine compliments without any particular agenda.
It reminds me of one of my favorite parts of How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie, where he tells a story about complimenting someone, and a student asks what he was hoping to gain from offering the compliment. Carnegie is incensed:
> I was waiting in line to register a letter in the Post Office at Thirty-Third Street and Eighth Avenue in New York. I noticed that the registry clerk was bored with his job[...] So while he was weighing my envelope, I remarked with enthusiasm: “I certainly wish I had your head of hair.”
> He looked up, half-startled, his face beaming with smiles. “Well, it isn’t as good as it used to be,” he said modestly. I assured him that although it might have lost some of its pristine glory, nevertheless it was still magnificent. He was immensely pleased. We carried on a pleasant little conversation, and the last thing he said to me was: “Many people have admired my hair.”
> I told this story once in public; and a man asked me afterwards: “What did you want to get out of him?”
> What was I trying to get out of him!!! What was I trying to get out of him!!!
> If we are so contemptibly selfish that we can’t radiate a little happiness and pass on a bit of honest appreciation without trying to screw something out of the other person in return—if our souls are no bigger than sour crab apples, we shall meet with the failure we so richly deserve.
> Oh yes, I did want something out of that chap. I wanted something priceless. And I got it. I got the feeling that I had done something for him without his being able to do anything whatever in return for me. That is a feeling that glows and sings in your memory long after the incident is passed.","time":1777902220,"type":"comment"},{"by":"ricardo_lien","id":48019592,"parent":48007438,"text":"I guess I should reach out to somebody in my badminton class this afternoon!","time":1777969904,"type":"comment"},{"by":"talkingtab","id":48015391,"kids":[48016293,48016625,48015877,48016510,48017647,48017383,48018505,48017691],"parent":48007438,"text":"I have found three strange and unexpected avenues for interacting with people.
1. Be on a quest. Yes a quest. I was trying to buy an old metal key as a gift for a friend. I wanted to find someone who sold sheep's milk (for making cheese). If you are on a quest it gives a context for an interaction. You both have something to talk about and it you both have an out: the answer. People almost always help you with a quest. And this ties with #2
2. Need help. I am lost. I am trying to get to the airport and I don't have much money. I trying to find a good book store. My car won't start. etc. I don't speak English.
3. Humor. Not telling jokes, just have a sense of humor about yourself, your common situation, the world in general.
I especially like being on a quest. Once I asked someone about the key, they sent me another place, they sent me another place and finally I found one. It was a blast. Everyone was helpful. I ended up telling people how I got there, why I was searching etc.","time":1777930799,"type":"comment"},{"by":"nasir","id":48008195,"kids":[48009564,48011004,48008873,48013923,48008599,48009462,48008884,48009566,48010427,48011182,48009333],"parent":48007438,"text":"Around 15 years ago I took on the challenge to start a conversation with random people to break through this barrier and train this muscle. What I started with was to chit chat with those I had already established an interaction. For example at the Starbucks I would say something to barista. Those interactions were short but broke the ice.
Later I went for random people in the street and that was quite awkward. There was simply not much I could work with (what I thought at the time).
This turned out to become a low stake effort to improve my social anxiety. Helped me build humour around it and eventually become comfortable
Fast forward to today, I can literally talk about anything to anyone. The main pattern I follow is to break the pattern and make a joke, be sarcastic respectfully or give a compliment. No permission just something they don't expect. Almost works all the time. It helps with confidence and also makes you realise its all in your head.
And it is fun indeed","time":1777899765,"type":"comment"},{"by":"HeartStrings","id":48018707,"kids":[48018789,48019501],"parent":48007438,"text":""According to Reddit” - so many lives have been ruined listening to what gremlins on social media have to say.
It’s simple. If you want, approach. It’s not dangerous, you won’t get cancer. If they don’t want to talk, you will stop talking with them and talk with someone else.
"I am deeply afraid of irritating someone or being in awkward situations." - anyone who thinks like this is suffering from abused dog syndrome and unironically has lost at life.
Also, why is he talking about “friends” and “strangers”? We all know he means “women". And there is LITERALLY no problem politely engaging conversation with a strange woman at the gym even if she has earpods on. It’s not a crime, just be normal. You are forgetting that other people are shy too and often want someone to take initiative since in 2026 nobody does.","time":1777961642,"type":"comment"},{"by":"brushfoot","id":48008383,"kids":[48009050,48012179,48015365,48018753,48009666,48010177,48010641],"parent":48007438,"text":"Wonderful! There's a lot of advice online about how essentially evil it is to talk to strangers: They're busy, they have headphones in, they might think you're hitting on them (God forbid; nothing could be more evil than attraction). Ignore it. It often as not boils down to fear and neuroticism from terminally online introverts (and sometimes plain old misanthropists) raised in a hyper-individualist culture and glued to devices sometimes from infancy.
Fair enough if an introvert just wants to be left alone; we should obviously never force our company on anyone (nor do the mentally healthy among us have any desire to do so, because we have empathy). However, people like that will let us know that they don't want to talk when we approach them, either directly or via body language and the nature of their replies. For many others, they're starving for social interaction, and it might make their day for you to reach out. This is what makes outreach worth it, in the end, despite the risk.","time":1777900748,"type":"comment"},{"by":"anondarhimes","id":48008951,"kids":[48009431],"parent":48007438,"text":"This was excellent.
If I may toss out another recommendation: Volunteering is one of the best ways I have found to meet people.
A food pantry, house of worship, the library, a community theater, a political group, an environmental service group, local writers group, homeless shelter, women's center, whatever - there are so many things to choose from.
I found several advantages to making friends this way:
1. no/low stress because you are doing them a favor showing up. Any volunteer-based organization NEEDS people. YOU are people. They NEED you. Don't be stressed because you might not know what's going on. They will be GLAD to see you.
2. Volunteer onboarding processes force other humans to be nice to you and get to know you in order to place you in a service group or provide you an assignment. The people that most organizations have doing this are outgoing and friendly. I'm generalizing, but having served with a bunch of volunteer organizations, I have found this to be the rule. I was often one of them.
3. If you are volunteering for something that you care about / believe in / are passionate for, then you INSTANTLY know that you are meeting people with something in common. This gives you both something to talk about or bond over.
Source: I met my wife and many friends volunteering in different organizations.","time":1777903472,"type":"comment"},{"by":"outime","id":48008132,"kids":[48008301,48008551,48014663,48009008,48010264,48008483,48008913],"parent":48007438,"text":"If you want to build a relationship with someone, try asking them for a small favor rather than offering one first* (or, for example, making random small talk about the weather). Most people love to help and feel useful. If you're new to the gym or want to learn a new exercise, you can simply ask for help. It's something we'naturally do if we weren't so afraid of approaching strangers.
*just paraphrasing a famous quote","time":1777899453,"type":"comment"},{"by":"grunder_advice","id":48008976,"kids":[48009092,48009689,48015744,48011081,48012522,48018248,48017013,48009044,48009075,48009551],"parent":48007438,"text":"I feel, like a lot of 21st century life is trying to do things artificially. Going to the gym, talking to strangers at the gym, ... these are both artifical replacements for human activity that is missing. You go to the gym because your daily routine isn't active enough. You try to form friendships with strangers because your daily routine lacks real and fulfilling interactions with other people.
Also it's kind of odd how nowadays everyone goes to the gym. Growing up as a late-stage millenial, gym goers were a niche subculture. Now it marketed to everyone everywhere as this integral part of modern daily life.","time":1777903583,"type":"comment"},{"by":"setgree","id":48008040,"kids":[48008359,48008089,48008392,48008118,48010048,48008444,48008162,48008256,48008510],"parent":48007438,"text":"Good for you, OP! Climbing gyms are especially good for making friends because you are working on problems with people. My gym has a weekly meet up for people looking for belay partners as well as classes where folks talk. Crossfit might also do the trick, as might a running club. Good luck!","time":1777898953,"type":"comment"},{"by":"aeturnum","id":48009746,"kids":[48010291],"parent":48007438,"text":"I've always had an easy time talking to strangers and striking up conversations. I think this line is the key one:
> But over time, I came to accept that it’s ok if they didn’t want to talk to me. That’s just one of the things you have to expect when you do something like this.
People are complex! They have a lot going on. You almost never get someone responding with the same attention you are giving. That's just how it is.
What he is doing is developing a practice of friendliness. This won't develop close friendships - close friendships are what happen after you're successfully friendly to people who are good fit. But it will set you up to do well in semi-public spaces like the gym or your friends' party where you don't know anyone. It's an extremely good skill to practice and, unlike what I would have said at twenty, it does not reflect a lack of depth. Understanding that not everyone wants to have a deep conversation at every moment is maturity - doubly so if you can recognize it in yourself.","time":1777907714,"type":"comment"},{"by":"noisy_boy","id":48011230,"kids":[48011823],"parent":48007438,"text":"Recently I went to the grocery store and as I entered the alcohol section, I saw a guy stacking the shelves. His hand slipped and the beer can jumped out but he showed impressive reflexes and caught it after couple of fumbles. There was no one else but him and me in the aisle.
I enthusiastically pointed out, "I saw that! That was amazing, great reflexes!" and added that sometimes no one sees these but I will definitely remember it. He was beaming and while I was checking out my stuff, I saw him excitedly pointing towards the aisle and me while chatting with a cashier. Where I am at, it is not the usual to throw loud and vocal compliments at strangers - so I guess he wasn't used to it.
I usually don't compliment people this enthusiastically but I guess the mood and time was right and I felt as good giving the compliment as he must have felt receiving it.","time":1777913225,"type":"comment"},{"by":"larodi","id":48019513,"parent":48007438,"text":"I talk to everyone, everywhere and find it one of the most humane things to do actually.","time":1777969225,"type":"comment"},{"by":"yakkomajuri","id":48009211,"kids":[48018329,48009401],"parent":48007438,"text":"I can definitely relate. What's funny is I've always been really social and open to talking to strangers, plus I come from a culture where this is accepted and encouraged (Brazil).
However, I've been working remotely for 7 years now and recently became a solo founder, and I realized I'm having a fair amount of social anxiety. At the previous two companies, I was working remotely but still had people online to chat to, and would meet in person once in a while. Now as a solo founder I've just been working from home and I noticed that when I was leaving the house to buy groceries or work out that was my "break time" and I somehow just wanted to be more alone so I always had my headphones on.
That meant that I became someone who's running away from social interaction the more I actually needed it. And that when placed in a social situation I'm suddenly anxious whereas before this all came very naturally to me (I've also spoken in public very often etc).
How I'm coping:
- Got a WeWork membership
- Leaving the house without headphones
- Striking up conversation with uber drivers, cashiers, etc
- Making an effort to go to events (even flying somewhere at my own expense to speak at a small event for the first time in years)","time":1777904751,"type":"comment"},{"by":"cpfohl","id":48008466,"kids":[48010564],"parent":48007438,"text":"Post College friendships can be hard. Friendships before graduations are almost all completely spontaneous and natural. No one has to _really_ know how to be the initiator. My experience suggests that it doesn’t really get better as you age, either.
My wife and I took on that role after college. Neither of us is particularly outgoing, but we’re not cripplingly shy either.
Meeting new people is about realizing you’re not alone in feeling lonely. When we pick up on positive vibes we just ask for a phone number “can I have your phone number? You seem cool, and I’d love to ___. (Fill in the blank with one of “get a cup of coffee/beer”, “take a walk,” “invite you to a [thing I host].” It’s not significantly different from the dating scene except it’s so much lower stakes. I recommend sticking to same sex or group invites for this reason. Rejections are rare, and almost certainly don’t reflect on you.
Secondly we start things on schedules. Things that happen regularly are super low pressure ways to start friendships: “hey, we cook an elaborate dinner and then hang out and play instruments/sing/watch a movie/hang out at the beach/take a hike once a month/week/whatever, join us!”
This makes it easy to invite anyone without it feeling like a date.
I say all this knowing that none of this is _easy_, but it is a kindness. You’re not alone feeling lonely. With a little bravery you can totally be the person who makes it better for your new group of friends.","time":1777901193,"type":"comment"},{"by":"ok123456","id":48011367,"parent":48007438,"text":"I've been going to the gym for decades, and to my current one for about a decade. There's a cadre of fairly serious people who have been there for that long or longer who all know each other. Even if we don't necessarily know someone's name, we can usually give a short description, and everyone will know who we're talking about.
The downside is you get sucked into the operational drama. The guy who started the gym lives there and has developed obvious memory problems, while the business partner basically stole the business from underneath him. His now-ex-wife took all of his savings, including an insurance payout from when he was struck by a semi during a traffic accident and was forced to medically retire from being a policeman. I believe most of that money went to frequent Disney trips. The business partner is trying to drive him out by charging him rent to stay there and watch the place, changing the hours so he can't get quiet, and she also stopped paying him altogether.
We usually just commiserate on who and what we can't stand and the degradation of general gym etiquette: people screaming like they're having sex while working out, people sitting on equipment and playing with their phones, people so checked out they take the exact piece of equipment you were on, despite it being a large gym with duplicate machines for most things. These are evergreen discussion topics.","time":1777913666,"type":"comment"},{"by":"larsbrinkhoff","id":48019212,"parent":48007438,"text":""Her barbell is a special women's barbell."
FYI, it was probably just a regular women's weightlifting barbell. They are somewhat lighter, and have a thinner grip. Maybe she's serious about her weightlifting training.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympic_weightlifting#Barbell","time":1777966446,"type":"comment"},{"by":"stevekemp","id":48007967,"kids":[48009136,48008547],"parent":48007438,"text":"I loved the writing, in particular this line, but the whole piece was strangely endearing:
![http://lars.nocrew.org/tmp/qr.png](\"http://lars.nocrew.org/tmp/qr.png\"){kind=link}
I asked if he was Canadian. He wasn't. The endIf you have anxiety about talking to strangers, just remember that 99% of the time when someone doesn't really want to talk, this happens. Not really that scary after all","time":1777901940,"type":"comment"},{"by":"alberth","id":48014471,"parent":48007438,"text":"This reminds me of a college dorm friend who always seemed to be on a date with someone new.
His philosophy was simple: “It’s the law of large numbers. If you ask enough people out, and don’t fear rejection, you’re eventually going to get a yes. And along the way, you build the confidence and skill to ask better.”","time":1777926271,"type":"comment"},{"by":"ben8bit","id":48008018,"kids":[48008250,48008870,48008171,48008323,48011549,48012262,48008207],"parent":48007438,"text":"I think picking up people at the bar is easier than making friends at the gym - what you want is to join a crossfit gym, or something that has a stronger community culture to it. Not the gym.","time":1777898841,"type":"comment"},{"by":"rimmontrieu","id":48010195,"kids":[48010275,48013848,48010314],"parent":48007438,"text":"Being an introvert myself and perfectly fine when being alone, this is so hard to read. Possibly it's just me but making new friends is quite overrated, and the whole thing OP does feels forced and artificial at many levels. Genuine connection should be built on mutual deep interests, and small talks at random places rarely reveal them. I'd be disappointed if someone starts a conversation with me artificially because I'm part of their hidden social experiment.","time":1777909610,"type":"comment"},{"by":"chapz","id":48008638,"parent":48007438,"text":"I realized with the people where I really care about leaving a good impression or hoping to become friends with, it's really hard and scary to do any kind of interaction. If I on the other hand have no desire for a friendship with someone but a chance occurs to chat, I talk to them like I know them for decades and am fully relaxed and don't really have any kind of anexiety.
Seems that the more you want something, the more you are able to sabotage yourself getting it.","time":1777902017,"type":"comment"},{"by":"bityard","id":48009649,"kids":[48009807,48009738,48010338],"parent":48007438,"text":"I want to congratulate the author for getting out of his comfort zone to tackle a hard problem. But being able to make friends at a gym is not a universal experience.
I joined a gym partially to get fit and partially to meet people with similar fitness goals. Working out alone just feels sad. I tried to be friendly with people, would smile and say "hi," when I walked past someone. I would ask someone a non-confrontational question about their workout. In months of trying, maybe a handful of people who at least said anything back. Zero conversations. The rest either responded with a blank stare or pretended to not hear me at all. Nobody ever approached me or said hi first the whole time I was there, except sometimes the people behind the counter.
I'm socially deficient but not THAT awkward and have no problem talking to people in other situations. I'm not sure if it was the kind of gym I was at, or just the wrong time of day, or if people in the gym only want attention from those who won the genetic lottery. But I didn't have much success.","time":1777907164,"type":"comment"},{"by":"mwelpa","id":48008216,"kids":[48008923],"parent":48007438,"text":"Imo talking to strangers at the gym is hard. I made friends there just by saying 'Hi', waving to them when we started to see each other working out often enough. Then once you're using the same equipment or get dressed in the locker room you have a conversation about whatever and there you go.
Anyway, the fastest way I made friends outside of school was at a language course, where you have to speak a lot about something. You can switch partners during the course, so you can talk to other people. Another thing is sports clubs, it works out the same as the gym.
So the answer is, I guess, just going to gatherings where people learn new things with an instructor.","time":1777899841,"type":"comment"},{"by":"deferredgrant","id":48016361,"parent":48007438,"text":"This is very HN in a funny way: take ordinary social behavior, turn it into a deliberate experiment, collect observations, then write it up.","time":1777937907,"type":"comment"},{"by":"jliptzin","id":48016032,"kids":[48018456],"parent":48007438,"text":"I just assume any guy trying to make small talk with me at the gym is trying to hit on me, which I am correct about maybe 80% of the time. I know because I am a gay guy so I know how this kind of thing goes. Not that I have a problem with it, I am always happy to talk to any strangers if they want to, for pretty much any reason. As a straight-passing guy though, women at the gym never approach me except to ask if I am done using a machine, and I also don’t approach them because I assume they’ll just think I’m trying to hit on them. I’m just unsure how to approach people at the gym while making it immediately clear that I am just looking for a friend/workout buddy and not anything more than that","time":1777935307,"type":"comment"},{"by":"askos","id":48017936,"parent":48007438,"text":"For those for whom the gym seems too intimidating to start convos with strangers, another option is to try spotting and signing up to the hobbies where social interaction comes naturally, if not even unavoidably. Things like amateur choir singing (which I do), amateur folk dancing groups, sports clubs where people train in interactive groups (a cross-country ski club in my case), etc. -- these give regularity and allow the persisting social interactions with the same people over longer periods of time to form into true friendships.","time":1777954108,"type":"comment"},{"by":"arnarbi","id":48016328,"parent":48007438,"text":"Best "friendmaker" hobby I know is sailing.
It's in general a very newcomer friendly hobby, which is both important as a newcomer yourself as well as for meeting new people once you are into it. It's naturally collaborative so you have to communicate, not very intense so there's a good amount of chill time, and in the cases where small-talk doesn't turn up interesting topics you can always talk about sailing itself.","time":1777937562,"type":"comment"},{"by":"paulmooreparks","id":48017070,"parent":48007438,"text":"Kudos to the author for making friends. I have to say, though, that I'm with the Redditors on this. I go to the gym to focus solely on my workout, and that's it. I'll nod and smile to the other regulars, but conversation is simply not on the menu.","time":1777945047,"type":"comment"},{"by":"cloche","id":48010433,"parent":48007438,"text":"This is great! Good on you for putting together a plan and taking action.
One thing I noticed when I was doing salsa dancing is that there's a normal distribution for how you "click" with people. With salsa dancing, you change partners frequently so I may have interacted with dozens of people in one night of dancing. I noticed how most people fall in the middle of being fine to dance with and then you get a few outliers where they are either terrible to dance with or are amazing.
It looks like OP found something similar. Out of 35 encounters, he had 5-6 advance to the "prioritization" stage (~14%) and 2 (5%) ended up moving into building a relationship outside of the normal environment you usually interact at. I think that is very relatable. Most people you interact with will be fine to chat with but only a small percentage will be people that you really gel with.","time":1777910581,"type":"comment"},{"by":"ccppurcell","id":48018285,"parent":48007438,"text":"Someone once came over to tell me I was using a machine wrong and I thanked them, collected my things, and left. Haven't been back to a gym in two years! But to be honest I enjoy body weight exercises and cycling better anyway.","time":1777957688,"type":"comment"},{"by":"SoftTalker","id":48010182,"parent":48007438,"text":"> there’s a number of people [at the gym] who want to be left alone and can be irritated if you interrupted their workout to talk.
This one is pretty easy. Look for the people who spend more time yapping than working out. They generally love to meet new people. The opposite case is pretty obvious too. Don't approach someone just as they are preparing to start a set or if they're going hard on a treadmill or bike. Generally, if someone is not talking to anyone and seems locked in, earbuds in, etc. probably leave them alone. But asking for a spot when they're between sets is an easy excuse to at least get their name. Nobody is going to really mind that, and you'll pick up pretty quickly whether they're talkative or not.","time":1777909566,"type":"comment"},{"by":"aurumque","id":48009230,"parent":48007438,"text":"I enjoyed this read, the energy, and the detailed positive outlook. However, what am I supposed to take away from "5 weeks / 35 people / no new recurring friends"? Every time I go out I feel this personally, and I never understood why so many people have such thick shells to crack.","time":1777904855,"type":"comment"},{"by":"jamilbk","id":48017347,"parent":48007438,"text":"Yeah, the weight floor can be hit or miss with regards to striking convos with strangers. Many of the people there want to make friends too, but many just want to focus on their workout.
Two related contexts that I've found to be much more friendly for this:
1. Climbing gyms, for reasons mentioned previously
2. The sauna! Actually very ideal for convos with strangers. Max overlap time is ~15 minutes, people are generally relaxed, no phones to distract and if it doesn't go well either party can always leave.","time":1777947328,"type":"comment"},{"by":"Subdivide8452","id":48009101,"parent":48007438,"text":"Such a cute read (I mean that in the best way possible). I'm quite a social person and it's really cool to see someone be so systemic about it. But I would not have the balls to just talk to random people in the way you did it, and I really admire that about you!","time":1777904232,"type":"comment"},{"by":"linkregister","id":48010346,"parent":48007438,"text":"This was a delightful read. I have a few relationships with people on the autism spectrum who struggle with socializing, despite recognizing the desire to be more social. I can point them to this blog.","time":1777910207,"type":"comment"},{"by":"Hobadee","id":48008361,"parent":48007438,"text":"> activities suggested by r/Syracuse like volleyball ... require you to already have friends.
False! Find a gym with open hours and just show up! I used to do this all the time with my friends, but there were always a few people there on their own. There is always someone a couple players short for their team, so just ask around ("Hey, you need anyone else on your team?") and you'll find some people to play with. Keep coming back week after week and you'll make some friends eventually.
I assume this works equally well for most team sports that can be played casually such as basketball, soccer, and others.","time":1777900619,"type":"comment"},{"by":"lordnacho","id":48008204,"parent":48007438,"text":"If you want to make friends, water your friend seeds.
Everybody knows a bunch of people by name, and nothing else, from various contexts. You go to matriculation, there's a bunch of people introducing themselves, too many to get to know. You work a job, there's 50 people whose name you know. You go to a party, your friends introduce you to 10 new people, and you don't have time to talk to them all.
The ones you don't talk to much, they are your friend seeds.
You move to a new town, and you know nobody, other than that one guy you never spoke to after the first week of university. Contact that guy.","time":1777899802,"type":"comment"},{"by":"titanomachy","id":48008905,"parent":48007438,"text":"This came across as a little odd and nerdy, but I'm actually really glad you shared your internal dialogue around this. It gives me more empathy for socially anxious (or just socially inexperienced) folks. Although the way you're starting out is kind of nerdy and overanalyzing, I'm sure these interactions will come naturally if you keep it up. Connecting with people is a very worthwhile effort and it's great that you're doing it.
In particular, the "rejection" will stop feeling awkward. I have random little one-or-two sentence exchanges with people several times per day, and usually it doesn't go beyond that, but I don't experience this as failure or rejection. I only engage further with the people who show (by words, body language, etc.) that they're genuinely interested in a conversation. For me, it's less than half.
The gym is an ok place, but not a great place, for what you're trying to do. Hiking clubs, running clubs, CrossFit gyms, rock-climbing gyms, and volunteer groups are all better options. The baseline level of socialization is very high in these places, whereas if you look around at a gym, most people have their headphones on, and are doing their own workout, so there's few natural opportunities to start a conversation.
Also, try to find people who are social and have lots of friends. If they like you they'll introduce you to their friends, which is a lot easier than starting cold. Don't be afraid to talk to women. Most of the people I know who are really good at connecting people are women.","time":1777903251,"type":"comment"},{"by":"chakintosh","id":48011042,"kids":[48017456],"parent":48007438,"text":"Great timing. I used to see a guy at the gym for a few months, we always go at the same time, and one day he approached me to correct my form, we had a chat and we kept meeting in the gym for a few months after that and until yesterday I mustered the courage to even ask him his name. Literally didn't even know his name for months, so yesterday I asked and got his number to catch up later.","time":1777912628,"type":"comment"},{"by":"ge96","id":48009437,"kids":[48017410],"parent":48007438,"text":"Is kind of sad reading the aftermath "never saw em again" kind of thing or "don't interact"
Shared interest is a main driver and frequency of interaction/seeing each other... like you become friends at school since you see each other everyday kind of thing
Shared interest, I've recently gotten into cars though I still ride the clapped out POS and someone was showing me their Porsche, sat in it, pretty cool.
But I see that person at work. In general work people don't become friends but sometimes... one of em I go over to their house, when I used to drink I'd drink with them. I do find I have to do more message initiation myself to keep things going so idk. One old friend of mine sends me reels almost everyday on instagram random dumb shit idk. Right now though I only have like 5 real friends that I talk to almost everyday. When I was younger 10s/100s but yeah that goes away as you get older. Also doesn't help I moved away to another state so lost all my IRL friends. And real friends I mean one time when I was really in a bad spot my friend loaned me 10 Gs which not trying to say money is friendship but yeah.","time":1777906010,"type":"comment"},{"by":"luxurytent","id":48008458,"kids":[48008709],"parent":48007438,"text":"I've been going to the gym for the past year after exclusively running in solitude. I am still introverted at the gym .. it's sort of my time. But I do appreciate overhearing the conversations which occur.
It's been nice to hear 60-something retirees chat about their health, quitting alcohol, sorting out the pickleball schedule, and sometimes politics (although honestly much more rare relative to the others listed)
I love the community some folks create in the gym.","time":1777901150,"type":"comment"},{"by":"brailsafe","id":48014745,"parent":48007438,"text":"The burgers look amazing, I'm happy for the author and happy that someone is finally acting on that advice and sticking with it. My sense is that people tend to not see rewards within a very short timespan and give up, and sometimes didn't even care to be there in the first place, so they give that up too, sort of missing the whole authentic part and failing to escape the transaction loop.
Gotta find a few things you enjoy for the long-term that exposes you to people regularly, that you'd be doing anyway, and open yourself up to meeting new people and developing strong connections.","time":1777927600,"type":"comment"},{"by":"vessenes","id":48008196,"kids":[48008494],"parent":48007438,"text":"Very sweet story. Next, invite that guy and his girlfriend and maybe someone else over to your place, or out to do something. Reciprocation matters a lot.","time":1777899767,"type":"comment"},{"by":"theoa","id":48018238,"parent":48007438,"text":"Go to a bar (in America). Sit on a stool. Say "hello" to the person next to you.","time":1777957269,"type":"comment"},{"by":"artur_makly","id":48009380,"parent":48007438,"text":"1. Its all in your head. \n2. Lead with your heart and instincts- nurture this and the magic happens.\n3. Dont take any negative reactions personally- they may be "somewhere" else dealing with shit in their head. But the "wave" you sent them will do its job anyway. \n4. The level of creativity that can be applied to this problem is endless! For example.. the idea of them coming to you (harder than going to an existing group/event) but has its benefits.
Experiment that worked for me : I now live in Buenos Aires , and missed playing ultimate frisbee.. so i posted around in various expat groups and craigslist.. "Ultimate Frisbee en Palermo! Beginners wanted - Experts welcomed" link to a youtube explainer vid.
Experiment 2: random street portraits with phone or digital handheld camera - followed up with a "who are you?" existential question (off record)
5. Always say thank you","time":1777905655,"type":"comment"},{"by":"philip-b","id":48010306,"parent":48007438,"text":">however, according to Reddit, there’s a number of people who want to be left alone and can be irritated if you interrupted their workout to talk.
My suggestion would be not to read social advice on public websites on the internet, especially on Reddit, because per public internet, everything is not okay/forbidden, everyone should mind their own business, choose the safest and the most inoffensive action in every possible social situation. Public places such as reddit are full of terminally online socially awkward people who are very unrepresentative of people in real life. Also, there are incentives to recommend the safest course possible because then you won't get downvoted by haters. I don't even say to take advice there with a grain of salt. I say it's probably better not to read such stuff because your brain might subconciously internalize that people think like this even though actully, in real physical world, it works differently.","time":1777910025,"type":"comment"},{"by":"tech-historian","id":48016747,"parent":48007438,"text":"Somewhat related: Patrick Winston's famous MIT How to Speak lecture. He's been giving this talk for 4 decades
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Unzc731iCUY","time":1777942132,"type":"comment"},{"by":"arowthway","id":48008521,"parent":48007438,"text":"To me as someone also "deeply afraid of irritating someone or being in awkward situations", it sounds like this project is greatly expanding the surface on which awkward situations can happen? How do you decide if you should wave to the person or ignore them? Isn't it tiring? Don't you wish to be anonymous again?","time":1777901409,"type":"comment"},{"by":"scherlock","id":48009834,"parent":48007438,"text":"Meeting and talk to people is a learned behavior. It took me a while in my 20s to get comfortable talking to new people. I'm determined to not let my kids struggle with the isolation that can come with social anxiety. My wife and I are working with my 14 year son to develop those skills. Between a couple books and his therapist (everyone should have one!) he's working through it, and has gone from being one of the shy-est kids to having the confidence to go up to a person and startup a conversation. He has a couple openers he uses to get a conversation going. It's finally clicked how much a small compliment can break the ice with boys and girls. He likes the feeling he gets when he gives someone a compliment and they brighten up.","time":1777908138,"type":"comment"},{"by":"meken","id":48011894,"parent":48007438,"text":"I was curious to get a sense for the overall "success rate" at a glance, so I uploaded the author's data as a spreadsheet and color-coded the conversations based on length (short=red, medium=yellow, long=green) with the help of Claude:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VqMF0xWzJMXWNndeY4P1...
It's particularly nice if you zoom out so you can see all the rows at once.
I hope the author doesn't mind - if you do please tell me and I will take it down!","time":1777915736,"type":"comment"},{"by":"dnnddidiej","id":48017635,"parent":48007438,"text":"Good on ya! You did really well. 10/10. I don't think gym really is the only option but you made it work well so who cares.","time":1777950484,"type":"comment"},{"by":"sminchev","id":48008880,"kids":[48009196],"parent":48007438,"text":"This is cool. The plan written as algorithm. \nPro-activity is the key. Usually, people like to stay in their comfort zone. This guy was searching for his, and found it.
I wonder, why he did not have any friends from the years of studying. Usually, this is the place friendship forever happen :)
I am happy for him :)","time":1777903138,"type":"comment"},{"by":"xp84","id":48010579,"parent":48007438,"text":"> “Ignored people I knew from class instead of saying hi because I didn’t know for sure if they remembered me even though the class had only 10 people in it”
This amuses me because it’s the exact reverse of my anxiety. I’m pretty bad at remembering the identities of people I may have briefly interacted with a few times in a situation like class or work, so I’m afraid of the “person from class” remembering me and me not remembering them and being offended. Like, “How about that exam last week” and me being like, “uhhh do we have a class together?”","time":1777911091,"type":"comment"},{"by":"yodsanklai","id":48010097,"kids":[48012543,48011030,48010425],"parent":48007438,"text":"> “do your hobby with other people, frequently”.
I think it's decent advice, but from my experience, it can take years to make friends that way. I practiced various sports my whole life in the context of sport clubs (martial arts, climbing, snowboarding, swimming...). The way it worked for me is that after months, sometimes years of chitchatting with same people over and over, I barely made any good friends from that context. I did make a bunch of "acquaintances". Definitely better than staying home, but not a silver bullet.","time":1777909186,"type":"comment"},{"by":"TheChaplain","id":48008424,"kids":[48009111],"parent":48007438,"text":"Instead of a gym another options are joining volunteer groups, a fraternity order (Oddfellow / Rebekahs), a local D&D meetup or local motorcycle club. \nSharing a common interest is the easiest way to make new friends.","time":1777900958,"type":"comment"},{"by":"c-c-c-c-c","id":48012852,"parent":48007438,"text":"Nice! I have been struggling to make friends at my current gym after moving to a new country, people seem way less friendly at just this gym which feels weird. Debating switching gyms because of it.
For socializing i usually go out dancing, long raves are usually good and gay guys are often very happy to talk, probably helps that I take my shirt off. Just need to keep out from the dark room from now on.","time":1777919413,"type":"comment"},{"by":"nkg","id":48010813,"parent":48007438,"text":"I live in a small town and I have noticed that I just have be outside and look available. I may be gardening, washing my car or just hanging, and people will randomly stop to start conversations, or just say "hey". \nThat reminds me of our grandparents and how they used to just sit on the front porch and someone would see them, start chatting, and maybe come in and have tea. We've lost those moments of availability.","time":1777911814,"type":"comment"},{"by":"akman","id":48014082,"parent":48007438,"text":"Wonderful idea to document, share and even have positive outcomes.
The author would probably love this YT channel which is all about helping others come to the same realization as he did: https://www.youtube.com/@socialanimal","time":1777924464,"type":"comment"},{"by":"anonu","id":48017475,"parent":48007438,"text":"I've never done crossfit but it feels like it might be conducive for socializing given the format.","time":1777948580,"type":"comment"},{"by":"johndhi","id":48009200,"kids":[48009297],"parent":48007438,"text":"Hell yeah.
Observation: people act like this challenge is unique to the young generation, but it certainly affected me (millennial). It was a long, scary process of getting comfortable talking to people. It's still hard! And I have to re-learn it in different phases of life:
>talking to people at school
>talking to people in college
>talking to girls at bars
>getting over the idea that I don't/shouldn't talk to girls at bars anymore, post-marriage
>talking to other parents, male or female, once becoming a parent
all different lessons, all challenging. all worth the effort.","time":1777904703,"type":"comment"},{"by":"happyweasel","id":48009621,"kids":[48009764,48010054,48011103],"parent":48007438,"text":"You go to the gym to lift. Not to talk. You may talk shortly if it is related to something you need to continue your workout. Apart from that you do not talk. End of story.","time":1777907014,"type":"comment"},{"by":"booleanbetrayal","id":48008941,"parent":48007438,"text":"I spent several years living in Mississippi. As someone who was fairly introverted upon arriving in the Deep South, I had that hammered out me pretty quickly, during every opportunity for social interaction. It's just part of the culture to engage. I think my time in that area was a bit of a mixed bag, but that one change was for the better, and it has led to wealth of relationships since. Most people yearn for some bit of connection, and it's not that difficult to be the catalyst.","time":1777903414,"type":"comment"},{"by":"perrygeo","id":48009908,"parent":48007438,"text":"Good advice generally. But please, not at the gym. All gyms have a different vibe but mine is almost strictly no talking. We go there to workout, not to chat. Everyone locked in, headphones on, no nonsense. I've been going for years and I can count on one hand the number of conversations I've witnessed.
But the flipside is, I see the same gym crowd at the coffee shop next door and we always have a good chat there. Context matters.","time":1777908506,"type":"comment"},{"deleted":true,"id":48008095,"parent":48007438,"time":1777899261,"type":"comment"},{"deleted":true,"id":48008766,"parent":48007438,"time":1777902687,"type":"comment"},{"deleted":true,"id":48012085,"parent":48007438,"time":1777916506,"type":"comment"},{"by":"ex-aws-dude","id":48015478,"parent":48007438,"text":"> activities suggested by r/Syracuse like volleyball and trivia night require you to already have friends
That's not really the case for volleyball
Most cities have drop-in where you just show up and form teams","time":1777931366,"type":"comment"},{"by":"kshacker","id":48016005,"parent":48007438,"text":"Gosh, I was guilty on this account just an hour ago.
I just came back from a midday walk in my neighborhood. Headphones on, walking along, when I hear someone call out — I don't quite catch what. I turn around, and there's a neighbor with a kid (not my street, so I don't know her), but she's from my community. At first I thought she was teaching the toddler — maybe 2 years old — how to say hello. So I'm just standing there, nonplussed. She repeats the greeting. I'm still confused about whether she's talking to me or demonstrating for the kid. Finally, a little louder: "I was just saying hello" — except she used the greeting from our community. It finally clicks, I laugh, and say "oh yeah, same to you."
I probably would have handled it differently if I hadn't had headphones in, or if I'd been more present, or just more socially aware from my early days. Still thinking about it and then I saw this thread.","time":1777935100,"type":"comment"},{"by":"Ritewut","id":48010687,"parent":48007438,"text":"I relate to the amount of `I didn't know what to say so I left` in this post and don't know what to do about it.","time":1777911408,"type":"comment"},{"by":"lurker616","id":48009932,"kids":[48017375,48011536],"parent":48007438,"text":"Am I too pessimistic, or did anyone else notice the fact that you got everything you wanted with 'the only other asian guy'. Race matters in friendships more than we realize? I feel if it was a gym full of asian people (or a neighborhood with more asians) it would be way easier for you to socialize and make new friends.","time":1777908583,"type":"comment"},{"by":"MattyRad","id":48009464,"parent":48007438,"text":"Good for the author for finding some success. I'd recommend seeking a significant other, somehow that sounds less daunting that making friends past 30. Cool roommates are friend-ajacent and help with loneliness; I had a cool roommate for a while until he moved in with his girlfriend, after which I was deeply lonely until I met my now wife.","time":1777906176,"type":"comment"},{"by":"nrjames","id":48009060,"parent":48007438,"text":"OP, if you're up for trying something different, curling is an extremely social sport that welcomes newcomers. There's a very active club in Utica. https://sites.google.com/uticacurlingclub.org/uticacurlingcl...","time":1777904013,"type":"comment"},{"by":"bananzamba","id":48010282,"parent":48007438,"text":"I've started the same, but instead of the gym I go to random meetup events. Which feels easier since most of them are exactly for talking to strangers. Also went bars sometimes with people from the group. I have to get more confident about exchanging contact information though, only did that twice.","time":1777909952,"type":"comment"},{"by":"pickleballcourt","id":48011824,"parent":48007438,"text":"I think the important thing here is you weren't just approaching completely cold but people who you've seen a few times before, which then somewhat makes sense. I think if someone approached completely cold in gym it might not come of as well.","time":1777915473,"type":"comment"},{"by":"csallen","id":48009589,"parent":48007438,"text":"Pro tip: introduce your friends to your other friends. Build a network. Networks get stronger as the number of connections increases, i.e. as more people in that network know each other. People are more excited to hang, bc they know more people, and the hangs are more exciting. And hangs become more frequent, because more people can initiate. And it makes awkward moments less common, too.
This is much more durable, reliable, and (quite frankly) fun than the hub-and-spokes model of friendship, where you just have a bunch of 1-on-1 catchups with people who know you but not each other.
Also, it's somewhat easy to do! In this guy's story, this could be as simple as, "Hey I want to get a few of us from the gym together for dinner sometime. Would you be down?" People are usually more receptive to this than they are to a 1-on-1 invite, too.","time":1777906869,"type":"comment"},{"deleted":true,"id":48009434,"parent":48007438,"time":1777906000,"type":"comment"},{"by":"nunez","id":48017081,"parent":48007438,"text":"Good on you for doing that. I did the same thing when I was in college, but in my case, I did it to get better at approaching women.
I made it a goal to talk to at least one woman per day on the train in NYC (hard mode) and say Hi to at least three.
I don't remember how long I kept this up for; I want to say I did this for three months, but it might have been shorter.
Like you, some people wanted nothing to do with me while others were down to chat.
While this made it easier for me to make the first move, it helped me massively at starting and keeping up conversations with anyone about nearly anything. This is probably a large reason why I'm in tech sales these days.
That being said, this didn't change my default personality. I'm still very introverted, very comfortable with hanging out by myself, have trouble not taking rejection personally (though I'm much better at this than I was back then), and, most importantly, absolutely hate talking to people at the gym, almost all of the time!
(My workouts are 90-120 minutes long on most days, which is a huge chunk of time that I'd rather spend coding, working or catching up on HN/Reddit. I immediately think of how much time I'm sacrificing whenever I'm approached at the gym and stonewall. I'm also like this on airplanes. The joys of constantly feeling behind and stressed for time!)","time":1777945088,"type":"comment"},{"by":"GIVEDADDYABYTE","id":48008774,"parent":48007438,"text":"> activities suggested by r/Syracuse like volleyball and trivia night require you to already have friends.
Most big cities will have rec leagues that are popular with people in their 20s. Find a league that has a team happy hour after, I live in a transient city and I've made a few friends from people who get placed on my teams.","time":1777902711,"type":"comment"},{"by":"DougN7","id":48011998,"parent":48007438,"text":"It absolutely delights me to see someone overcome something that is hard for them. We all have them. When I read about someone succeeding like this, I look at myself and find the next one on the (long!) list and decide to work on it.","time":1777916084,"type":"comment"},{"by":"pbreit","id":48014436,"kids":[48014534],"parent":48007438,"text":"I don't go to the gym much but that is one place where I would be VERY careful trying to strike up a confirmation and heaven forbid tapping someone on the shoulder.","time":1777926066,"type":"comment"},{"by":"ecshafer","id":48008539,"parent":48007438,"text":"Weird seeing Syracuse here.
One thing I have learned is that there are inviters and invitees for friends groups. Most people kind of just sit around and wait for things to happen. Some other people will make plans and invite people. Taking the initiative and talking to people first is the way to go, and looks like it worked out.","time":1777901476,"type":"comment"},{"by":"rabelais","id":48008406,"parent":48007438,"text":"each place has different social dynamics. from my experience, working out at a gym isn't the exactly an easiest way to make friends. I've also frequented gyms in the past but there were moments that I needed to focus alone, otherwise couldn't get the gain I needed. the activity itself can become a social constraint in some cases.
when I've joined a social dance community, I was almost forced to talk and stand close with strangers. It is an emotional rollercoaster; it's all happy when I've met nice people but I've felt helpless when I had to dance/interact with people that I don't like, for whatever that is.
I've also practiced some type of acrobatics/solo dance for years and it is somewhere in between.
I think some type of intimacy heatmap can be made with all these activities.","time":1777900887,"type":"comment"},{"by":"martin-uk-","id":48015572,"parent":48007438,"text":"So glad to see such constructive and supportive reception of your stellar initiative. Half expected people to flame this kind of genuine reaching out for connection we can all (I hope) identify with, as somehow selfish. It is not, and this is a wonderful act of persona growth and humanity that should be more normalised. Well done.","time":1777932067,"type":"comment"},{"deleted":true,"id":48014401,"parent":48007438,"time":1777925881,"type":"comment"},{"by":"ternaus","id":48018781,"parent":48007438,"text":"Reminds me approach that you get in nearly every book on "How to meet girls".
Systematic, efficient.
Played this game myself. And I did it when moved to the US with a limited English and lack of understanding of the local culture and traditions.
After a few years of dedicated practice, moved me from the state that author describes to the complete lack of fear talking to strangers, I can easily make nearly ever conversation warmer, deeper and more relaxed.
------
A couple more comments, based on personal experience:
[1] It works better if place where you meet is your deep comfort zone, a very familiar place
- gym, if you are going there for some time, know where each type of equipment is.\n- dance venue that you were going dancing for a while\n- art class\n- etc
[2] It helps a lot if you are quite proficient in the activity, expertise brings respect, and higher social status by itself, even when you do not talk to anyone.
[a] in the gym ideal technique > strength > looks / size of your muscles.
- Third class in powerlifting, based on Soviet grading system is a threshold, passing which life changes (question of months, maybe a year). You get more respect from men and curiosity from women, and you get more confident, because you got stronger: https://www.sportscategory.info/en/powerlifting\n- As your shoulders get broader, fat fat percentage goes down - it improves your appearance -> your confidence -> helps as well.
[b] Dance venue is a great place to meet people and address your fears / issues. Rule of the game - during the class before the social part teacher makes you switch partners => you will be forced to introduce yourself to the partner, this person cannot turn away and will need to reply, introduce themselves.
Later when social part starts - people switch partners every dance => \n- you start with inviting for a dance people whom you already met during the introductory class.\n- In 3 hours of social dancing you dance with 20+ people\n- As your skill grows (question of weeks-months) and dancing with you is not torture anymore, but quite the opposite - it is enjoyable => you get more relaxed, people want to dance with you => conversations start all the time\n- In dancing, as a man you lead, and this transfers to other activities (helped to become a lecturer teacher in University), but you also better lead the conversation. I.e. it is not a random exchange of information anymore, but you can vary it's direction and emotional component.
---\n[3] Some places are better than others.
It is good to go to the gym, to get more friends, but not directly. I do not like talking to people in the gym, I suspect that other people as well.
you are recovering between sets, focussing on the audiobook, moving weights - you are always busy with something. I also heard that women do not like talking to men in the gym as they may feel "no in the best form", i.e. for her - talking to men feels comfortable, when she took shower, picked a cloths that fits her, not when she is sweaty, struggling with weights and sees other ladies in the gym who are more fit.
Places like:
- climbing gym <- very social activity where you solve same problems - trying to climb a route. You can just tell someone who struggled to climb a bouldering problem something like: "Nice!", "Good job!", "Well done", and ask for a tip.
Ot if you already climbed it - give a tip yourself. These are natural openers.
If you climb similar level of problem, you will get stack in the gym in the same spots, taking a break between tries - universe will force you to talk and socialize.
- Dance venue, as I mentioned above\n- Hikes\n- any types of group classes: scuba diving, wine tasting, art classes, etc will do the job quite well","time":1777962381,"type":"comment"},{"by":"mstaoru","id":48011003,"parent":48007438,"text":"You should try this in Germany. You'll probably get arrested.","time":1777912469,"type":"comment"},{"by":"pclark","id":48010287,"parent":48007438,"text":"1. I just spent the weekend with a mens wellness group called "Fishing for Good" highly recommended if anyone wants to make new friends.
2. I love this.
3. It is hard to make adult friends! I loved this post.","time":1777909962,"type":"comment"},{"by":"mghackerlady","id":48008304,"parent":48007438,"text":"This is the nerdiest way to go about this, I love it. Good job OP! If you're interested in old video games or trading card games, see if there are any card or used game shops near you. The people there tend to be cool","time":1777900330,"type":"comment"},{"by":"Slavtacular","id":48009786,"parent":48007438,"text":"This is how social life starts, dont wanna spoil it but its full of wonderful and confusing stuff. If i may i suggest you to try some rejection selftherapy where you walk to random spots u think will say no, who knows maybe u get a few yeses u thought were impossible. As u long as u are good and nice and ur intentions are pure, and if you are willing to correct the mistakes u will make in the future, to learn from them as much as possible, u will come far. Just dont forget to have fun.","time":1777907895,"type":"comment"},{"by":"gitowiec","id":48010561,"parent":48007438,"text":"Thank you, I'm also lonely and this article gave me hope.","time":1777911040,"type":"comment"},{"by":"butterlesstoast","id":48009490,"kids":[48011784],"parent":48007438,"text":"I can't stop thinking about the amount of people they engaged with simply never to be seen again. Are gym membership commitments a lot less serious than I remember these days?","time":1777906360,"type":"comment"},{"by":"dzonga","id":48008412,"parent":48007438,"text":"compliment people - if you're unlikely to see them again. just being kind goes a long way.
if you see them frequently - just acknowledgement at first goes a long way before saying something. i.e the head nod | smile","time":1777900913,"type":"comment"},{"by":"con","id":48008042,"parent":48007438,"text":"Great writing - and happy for you that you seem to have made some friends!","time":1777898973,"type":"comment"},{"by":"capitanazo77","id":48014792,"parent":48007438,"text":"Or simply move to Latin America or talk to them. Socialization is natural and easy","time":1777927851,"type":"comment"},{"by":"throwaway2037","id":48008151,"parent":48007438,"text":"
> Ignored people I knew from class instead of saying hi because I didn’t know for sure if they remembered me even though the class had only 10 people in it\nI started buying dishes for the shared kitchen. People kept "borrowing" them, so new guests would come, cook something, and have no fork. So I made sure there were always dishes.
The kitchen was a dreadful place. Deathly quiet. This strange tension in the air. Everyone was avoiding eye contact. There was a kind of toxic miasma about the place, and the unspoken agreement was to leave it undisturbed.
I, the heretic: I would greet people! I would greet people who were in the same space as me.
I am told this was considered normal, by our ancestors. In my case, it was partly "it's morally wrong not to greet them", and partly social anxiety around strangers. (In both cases, my autism ;)
So I solved that problem by just saying hello to everyone. I made the tension go away by saying hello.
Two weeks later I had like twelve friends. They started talking to each other, and a whole community formed in the kitchen. It was great.
I thought that was pretty cool. It also got me thinking about how, if I had been able to find a studio apartment or something, I might have ended up with zero friends instead.
In the context of the loneliness epidemic, I have to wonder if the shared kitchen is one answer. More precisely: the absence of a private one. (It sounds harsh, but the alternative... we are currently living through.)
I love this clip from the 90's TV show Northern Exposure on the same subject:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JS2N4VWIbCI","time":1777933079,"type":"comment"},{"by":"christiansafka","id":48012480,"parent":48007438,"text":"That is a good looking homemade burger","time":1777917906,"type":"comment"},{"by":"thenoblesunfish","id":48014444,"parent":48007438,"text":"Charming! Reminded me of "Naive. Super" by Erlend Loe, which I loved.","time":1777926115,"type":"comment"},{"by":"burnto","id":48008819,"parent":48007438,"text":"I read this and feel happier for it. Keep it up OP! I like imagining a world where more people are curious, kind, and open to connecting.","time":1777902874,"type":"comment"},{"by":"chad_strategic","id":48009662,"parent":48007438,"text":"I'm going to keep my response very simple. (and not talk about society, cell phones etc... )
This post WINS Hacker News for the month!","time":1777907231,"type":"comment"},{"by":"mobeigi","id":48009508,"parent":48007438,"text":"Such a feel good post, thanks for sharing OP!","time":1777906456,"type":"comment"},{"by":"Foivos","id":48008321,"kids":[48008833],"parent":48007438,"text":""Guy who was doing exercise where you pick up barbell and lift it above your head."
For anyone curious it is called snatch","time":1777900388,"type":"comment"},{"by":"XCSme","id":48009821,"kids":[48010193,48017186],"parent":48007438,"text":"> Old gay with tattoo of Osiris eye
Not sure if that's a typo or not in Week 3...
As the next one is
> Old guy who brought his own towel","time":1777908063,"type":"comment"},{"by":"melodyogonna","id":48018208,"parent":48007438,"text":"Ha! Nerds.","time":1777956962,"type":"comment"},{"by":"realprimoh","id":48012875,"parent":48007438,"text":"This is one of my favorite posts ever on HN. Thank you for sharing.","time":1777919492,"type":"comment"},{"by":"bix6","id":48008306,"parent":48007438,"text":"This is awesome lol I love the stories for each person. Great to see you trying OP!","time":1777900332,"type":"comment"},{"by":"dbvn","id":48013033,"parent":48007438,"text":"Always surprising to learn most people are cool","time":1777920103,"type":"comment"},{"by":"globular-toast","id":48008133,"kids":[48010449,48015666],"parent":48007438,"text":"If you want to talk to men at the gym it's easy and no need for awkward scripts. Just ask for a spot. Most guys will feel honoured to be asked as you're showing trust in them. They'll spot you and then just talk about lifting. I met loads of guys this way.
Don't talk to girls you're attracted to, though. They can tell. If they want you to talk to them they'll give you signs. But that's a whole other thing.
The bullet point list in the intro was so relatable. It brought back some still painful memories. I often wish I could go back in time and do some of those things differently. I don't know what I was afraid of, but I missed out on so many connections.","time":1777899460,"type":"comment"},{"by":"AtlasBarfed","id":48017356,"parent":48007438,"text":"Here's how I made friends in the real world:
1) pickup basketball
2) aerobics/yoga/group fitness
3) triathlons
4) work","time":1777947383,"type":"comment"},{"by":"wnolens","id":48017565,"parent":48007438,"text":"I loved this. And love when someone chats me up at the gym more than just "you using this?". See you around the gym, my guy.","time":1777949654,"type":"comment"},{"by":"jere","id":48011328,"parent":48007438,"text":"> Pretended I didn’t know a childhood friend when they said hi because I didn’t know how to act around people I used to know
In high school because people thought I was a snob or something because of my social awkwardness. I love talking to people but absolutely hate initiating conversations. I love looking people in the eye when they're talking and hate looking at people as a I pass, so I usually don't even know who is walking near me. It's kind of crippling (and this is after it's gotten much better over time).","time":1777913511,"type":"comment"},{"by":"TheMagicHorsey","id":48012472,"parent":48007438,"text":"Was interesting to read this post because I've always been an extrovert and have never had trouble making friends. I usually make friends quickly ... and my problem is in the other direction ... I have too many friends and people get mad at me because I don't have the time to keep up with every relationship I've built in 40+ years.
I've been a best man 6 times. A groomsman 20+ times. I'm spread really thin now that I also have kids and a wife and family commitments.
Sometimes I actually crave solitude more than anything else.
Reading this post is almost like reading about another tribe from a distant place, and what it feels like to live their lives.
Is it weird that I'm kind of envious of this guy and his life? Not enough to trade places ... because I'd miss my wife and kids and close friends ... but if I could just like be him for a few weeks and then come back to my life.","time":1777917850,"type":"comment"},{"by":"jimt1234","id":48012037,"parent":48007438,"text":"I had a friend years ago that was truly amazing at interacting with people. She could, and did, talk to anyone - a rich guy with a $20K watch or a homeless guy; it didn't matter to her. And, the thing that really stuck with me is she always left the people that she interacted with feeling better. Always. I have numerous memories of her conversing with people and watching their expressions or body language completely change in a matter of minutes.
Anyway, that's the part I've tried to focus on - making at least one person I interact with everyday feel better. It doesn't have to be a major, life-changing interaction, just inject a tiny bit of positivity into someone's life. The main thing I realized was that I had to surrender the fear of being perceived as cheesy, corny, fake or manipulative. I think it's gone well; I hope I've made others feel better, if only for a moment. But honestly, I think it's helped me the most.","time":1777916268,"type":"comment"},{"by":"bearzk","id":48013720,"kids":[48019428],"parent":48007438,"text":"really love this post!","time":1777922755,"type":"comment"},{"by":"gib444","id":48009132,"kids":[48009873],"parent":48007438,"text":"Love this. Need more of this. This "don't talk to me, ever" is an absolute cancer in our society.","time":1777904398,"type":"comment"},{"by":"sweetjuly","id":48009750,"parent":48007438,"text":"Another trick is that people are usually nicer to you if you talk to them after having gone to the same place at the same time for a while. If you smile and waive at them a few times before you go and talk to them, you've built a bit of familiarity by nature of being a "regular" and aren't just cold approaching people you've never seen.","time":1777907728,"type":"comment"},{"by":"mvdtnz","id":48015757,"kids":[48017970],"parent":48007438,"text":"Other Asian Guy's burger looks good as hell.","time":1777933491,"type":"comment"},{"by":"contingencies","id":48015671,"kids":[48016878],"parent":48007438,"text":"My advice is to go to nature and leave the built environment. You are anxious because you are living in an artificial environment which is not doing you any favors. When you arrive in a calmer place you will find different people and greater peace. Moving leaves, the sound of wind and birds, sunshine on your skin, fresh air, the smell of the earth after rain, distant views: these are things that make us feel happy and safe due to evolutionary affinity. You don't get them on a concrete cliff in an apartment or lifting in a room with commuter phone zombies and 'roid droids.","time":1777932732,"type":"comment"},{"by":"tomlockwood","id":48015435,"parent":48007438,"text":"I can't recommend going doorknocking for a cause you care about, enough. Its maybe a half-day, you'll find most people aren't like the angry commenters on twitter, you'll meet people in your community and it makes you more confident talking to strangers!","time":1777931123,"type":"comment"},{"by":"addybojangles","id":48010339,"parent":48007438,"text":"So thankful that people do this and chronicle this...our society is getting more and more isolated, it feels. This (I FEEL LIKE, could be wrong, I'm kinda a boomer now haha) was more common 'back in the day' and now some people do it as a social experiment.","time":1777910182,"type":"comment"},{"by":"hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm","id":48014399,"kids":[48016835,48016854],"parent":48007438,"text":"Please don't let Reddit warp your perception of reality. It is just a corner of the web full of awkward and negative people (and bots these days). In real life, there is always people socialising at gyms, especially small ones, even received a random compliment a couple of weeks ago by someone I never met.","time":1777925880,"type":"comment"},{"by":"Acrobatic_Road","id":48011394,"parent":48007438,"text":"I don't think is a viable strategy for building a social life. Gym attracts asocial weirdos (not an insult, I happen to be one). I would consider getting a really hobby or switching jobs. There's a lot of turnover in the food service industry, plenty of chances to meet new people. If you're an unemployed CS grad what do you have to lose? The best thing though would be finding a romantic partner and just devoting yourself to that person, instead of moving from one fleeting friendship to another.","time":1777913769,"type":"comment"},{"by":"anal_reactor","id":48009961,"parent":48007438,"text":"If talking to random strangers worked then people would be doing this more often.
The problem is that it's usually extremely unlikely that you actually have something in common with a random stranger. I mean it's fine if you enjoy popular things and do typical activities AND you like having lots of casual friendships, but if you have a distinct personality or you prefer to build deeper connections, then "send to all" approach doesn't work.
I started being nicer to people and I realized I found myself taking part in conversations that I simply did not enjoy.","time":1777908679,"type":"comment"},{"deleted":true,"id":48009606,"parent":48007438,"time":1777906943,"type":"comment"},{"by":"NickC25","id":48009236,"kids":[48014616],"parent":48007438,"text":"Just ask for a spot when you see someone available.
You humble yourself, you grow as a person by practicing communication, and you get to try to lift a little heavier as you know someone is there to help you when you eventually fail a rep (which is important if you're trying to bulk or get stronger). You thank them after and maybe even give/get a fist bump. That's it. Do this often while being mindful of people and their own workouts. One day, someone will ask YOU for a spot. Oblige.
Asking for a spot is absolutely a frequent and everyday occurrence at pretty much any gym. Most people are actually pretty honored when they are asked to spot someone's PR attempt.
You don't really have to make a ton of small talk unless both parties are open to it, but you'll get to know the regulars who will eventually talk to you.","time":1777904884,"type":"comment"},{"by":"dpkirchner","id":48009661,"kids":[48010472],"parent":48007438,"text":"This is absolutely bonkers to me. We're not here to be scientifically experimented on or to make you feel better about yourself. The very idea that OP learned about places and activities that people participate in explicitly to be social and, instead, chose to touch people when they're not clearly wanting to chat is just wild.
What do we have to do to discourage you from touching us?
I mean I guess I'm glad that you're trying to resolve your anxiety. Self improvement is good for some people. I just wish it weren't at the expense of others.","time":1777907228,"type":"comment"},{"by":"throwaway894345","id":48008376,"kids":[48008432,48017238],"parent":48007438,"text":"> Old gay with tattoo of Osiris eye
Was this a typo or … ?","time":1777900698,"type":"comment"},{"by":"b1temy","id":48008349,"parent":48007438,"text":"It's obvious in hindsight but to me its really interesting you can collect data points on the community just by chatting with them. Maybe you could guess, by appearance or behaviour or something, whether most people at the gym are university students, or gym bros, or something else.
But by chatting with them, the world seems a bit bigger. And even if you don't see them again often, or don't chat again, its just nice that you have some level of familiarity and learn new things you wouldn't know unless you chatted with them. And although sometimes you have that awkward uncomfortable short conversation, every once in a while, you make a new friend. That is life, I suppose.","time":1777900568,"type":"comment"},{"by":"sudo-tak","id":48009620,"parent":48007438,"text":"what if your an engineer who likes his alone time >>> and a micro home gym? ))","time":1777907000,"type":"comment"},{"by":"throwpoaster","id":48009756,"kids":[48016792],"parent":48007438,"text":"Autism is a hell of a drug.","time":1777907754,"type":"comment"},{"by":"shevy-java","id":48008875,"parent":48007438,"text":"> One of these people is someone I will refer to as “the other Asian guy”. I got a lot closer to him than expected.
Oh those bromances ...","time":1777903103,"type":"comment"},{"by":"prmoustache","id":48015855,"parent":48007438,"text":"I don't have much issues talking to people, but I have issues maintaining friendship. I came to the conclusion that my relation to people has been fucked up by sexism and its consequences, probably because I think about it too much.
As a male all my friendship with heterosexual males end up being frustrating and diaappointing. They can behave when you meet them with their partners but whenever you go out with alone they can't help acting like alphassholes making derogatory comments about women they see in the street. In fact even homosexual male oten can't help acting like Neanderthals too. I am not under any illusion that women behave much better when they are in groups but I have had less occasions to hear their comments so keep a more candid view.
I tend to have more interesting experience with women but I always find it skewed. I rarely interact with strangers because I don't want to be that guy they could feel is harassing or mansplaining them.
Two recent examples, funnily both happening while riding my bike:\n- oveetook a woman on the road riding a bike with a bent drop bar. As I glanced over and said hello I realized that handlebar was flexing at every pedal stroke and knowing the fatigue limit of aluminium I assumed it was alrady cracked and was staying in one piece only with the help of the bar tape. I wanted to warn her about the risk of riding with a handlebar that could break anytime and would have gladly offered her to fix her bike for free as we were close to home and I have some spare parts in mint state basically waiting to be used. But I was so afraid of mansplaining her that I just ler her go, hoping she would not lose her teeth in the near future.\n- last sunday, after a quick stop to take some pictures. When I hoped back on the bike and was progressively accelerating to my cruising speed, two women overtook me. Despite having a friendly hello, I realized later that I was just 2 meters behind and we had more or less the same cruising speed. I was afraid of making them uncomfortable following them as I realizwd one of them glanced several times over her shoulder. In hindsight I should have stopped again foe a minute but I decided to overtake and drop them to save them from that annoyance. They probably thought I was that guy trying to impress them while I was just escaping from an awkward situation.
With non strangers that I know from hobbies or work, I have had great relationships but I have always ended up losing contact. I am even more uncomfortable with those that have a partner as I feel like their is always like a question mark over wether going out with them alone would be seen as trying to date them. I have several ex colleagues that I genuinely wanted to stay in touch that I totally ignored for that very reason after switching job.
Another example is an ex colleague of mine, who was not at the time in a relationship. I had mentionned her to my partner several time as seeing her as a great friend as she had been very kind to me and offered genuine support at a time I was suffering. Since she had moved to another city we always mentionned meeting when we had a chance. Ultimately when planning a road trip with my girlfriend, we envisioned making a stop in that city and my girlfriend asked me if I wanted to message her. But then a few minutes later came THE QUESTION. How does she look? Is she pretty? I knew from that moment that it was a lost case and I just never messaged her and completely lost touch when I closed my social media accounts.","time":1777934075,"type":"comment"},{"by":"guluarte","id":48016101,"parent":48007438,"text":"> I am lonely and have no friends.
...
> Here’s the raw data.
yep, that's the problem. For making friends you have to follow the tennis mindset: don't optimize the outcome, just enjoy the rally.","time":1777935796,"type":"comment"},{"by":"SandeepJawahar","dead":true,"id":48014237,"parent":48007438,"text":"[dead]","time":1777925130,"type":"comment"},{"by":"lowkey57","dead":true,"id":48017546,"parent":48007438,"text":"[dead]","time":1777949469,"type":"comment"},{"by":"mtam","dead":true,"id":48008258,"parent":48007438,"text":"[flagged]","time":1777900042,"type":"comment"},{"by":"korarishi","dead":true,"id":48009891,"parent":48007438,"text":"[dead]","time":1777908409,"type":"comment"},{"by":"mufid99","dead":true,"id":48008442,"parent":48007438,"text":"[dead]","time":1777901038,"type":"comment"},{"by":"gj91","dead":true,"id":48009844,"parent":48007438,"text":"[dead]","time":1777908187,"type":"comment"},{"by":"huflungdung","dead":true,"id":48008655,"parent":48007438,"text":"[dead]","time":1777902093,"type":"comment"},{"by":"throwjjj","dead":true,"id":48008944,"parent":48007438,"text":"[dead]","time":1777903446,"type":"comment"},{"by":"poopiokaka","dead":true,"id":48008646,"parent":48007438,"text":"[dead]","time":1777902052,"type":"comment"},{"by":"sweenzor","dead":true,"id":48016006,"parent":48007438,"text":"[dead]","time":1777935103,"type":"comment"},{"by":"junglistguy","dead":true,"id":48010783,"parent":48007438,"text":"[dead]","time":1777911724,"type":"comment"},{"by":"testing_auth","dead":true,"id":48014951,"parent":48007438,"text":"[dead]","time":1777928511,"type":"comment"},{"by":"rexpop","dead":true,"id":48013267,"parent":48007438,"text":"[dead]","time":1777921034,"type":"comment"},{"by":"hfirkrrji","dead":true,"id":48007965,"kids":[48007998,48008006,48008060,48008034,48008072,48008053,48008022,48008027,48008011],"parent":48007438,"text":"[flagged]","time":1777898499,"type":"comment"},{"by":"plexescor","id":48009037,"parent":48007438,"text":"I am really shy and i dont touch grass, i would rather do some c++","time":1777903935,"type":"comment"}]},{"by":"zdw","descendants":17,"id":47998158,"kids":[48016107],"score":86,"time":1777823373,"title":"Testing macOS on the Apple Network Server 2.0 ROMs","type":"story","url":"http://oldvcr.blogspot.com/2026/05/testing-macos-on-apple-network-server.html","comments":[{"by":"kergonath","id":48016107,"kids":[48016416,48016117,48016204,48016183],"parent":47998158,"text":"It’s "Mac OS", not "macOS", or even "MacOS" (which is the title on the actual page).
That said, this is some serious wizardry. I wish I had one of these to play with.","time":1777935849,"type":"comment"}]},{"by":"Brajeshwar","descendants":124,"id":48009840,"kids":[48011827,48012534,48019234,48011733,48011636,48013858,48011788,48018442,48011799,48011859,48011059,48019012,48011128,48011228,48011789,48017319,48017142,48011454,48015549,48016804,48016967,48011914,48012064,48011491,48011167,48013917,48017683,48015039,48011488,48016940,48011935,48012772,48016623,48015310,48010909,48011148,48010787,48017132,48014813,48016052,48011521,48011701],"score":168,"time":1777908173,"title":"1966 Ford Mustang Converted into a Tesla with Working 'Full Self-Driving'","type":"story","url":"https://electrek.co/2026/05/02/tesla-1966-mustang-ev-conversion-full-self-driving/","comments":[{"by":"sottol","id":48011827,"kids":[48012892,48012801,48016002],"parent":48009840,"text":"I really like the look of the car, but from the title it sounds like a Mustang has been converted into an FSD Tesla ("teslafied" Mustang) - but Tesla suspension, Tesla interior... this smells like a Mustang body fitted onto a Tesla chassis ("mustangified" Tesla).
I suspect that this might be more of a "Mustang body kit" on a Tesla chassis and not retrofitting the Tesla tech into a Mustang chassis + body. Still cool, but maybe misleading.","time":1777915484,"type":"comment"},{"by":"public_void","id":48012534,"kids":[48013081],"parent":48009840,"text":"I used to work at a company that did self driving. The sensor setup was more complicated than Tesla (cameras, lidar, etc), but the fact that FSD can still work on this car despite the cameras being in a different place is really impressive to me. Our sensors were pretty sensitive to accurate calibration, and iirc any time we tried to move our sensor array to a new car it took a ton of work to reconfigure it to make the sensor fusion output work.","time":1777918113,"type":"comment"},{"by":"beAbU","id":48019234,"parent":48009840,"text":"Superfastmatt did something similar with a very very old Jag... (Sans the FSD)
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLoTU9_iCGa6i_C38pwQyg0pBG...
His channel comes highly recommended for anyone even remotely interested in cars by the way.","time":1777966635,"type":"comment"},{"by":"AngryData","id":48011733,"kids":[48016178],"parent":48009840,"text":"From the article it sounds like the inverse, they took a Tesla and stuck a classic car exterior shell on it, not transplant the electric car parts into a mustang frame. It is still kind of neat but is not the same thing to me. You don't normally upgrade a classic car by chopping out the entire frame and sticking the body panels onto a modern car.","time":1777915117,"type":"comment"},{"by":"ryan42","id":48011636,"kids":[48014608,48012191],"parent":48009840,"text":"Here's one of a fully custom Toyota 4x4 truck getting a Tesla Model 3 motor that I enjoyed. I would love to have a small electric pickup like this, but I don't want to invest $100k to get it done
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siEhd4Z-6Ts","time":1777914763,"type":"comment"},{"by":"SoftTalker","id":48013858,"kids":[48019248,48014441,48017299,48015476,48014427],"parent":48009840,"text":"It would be cool if we saw the separation of drivetrain from body in the automobile market. This happens with heavy trucks, you can buy a "glider" which is a completely new, finished rolling chassis and you provide your own engine. Originally done (I think) to skirt emissions laws but it would be cool to be able to buy the body and the EV drivetrain (and maybe battery packs?) from different vendors, and for EV drivetrains to be more easily fittable to older chassis.","time":1777923422,"type":"comment"},{"by":"condiment","id":48011788,"parent":48009840,"text":"This sort of conversion gets coverage every once in a while and it's been neat to see old frames getting chopped onto new electric drivetrains. I spoke with one of the people interviewed in this article[1] a couple years back about converting an old truck I have sitting around into an EV.
The Model 3 approach takes their unified rear axle (motor,axle,wheels) and mounts it into an existing frame. Then you just need to find a place to stuff the batteries, retrofit some high-voltage electronics, and you're off to the races. One of the drawbacks of that approach is that it changes the stance of the vehicle, but for this Mustang that doesn't seem to matter much - it still looks classic.
Other converters either go for the high end with a model S and fit the motor into a traditional drivetrain for a sleeper build, or they go for the low end and take an old forklift motor and batteries and build what is effectively a street-legal golf cart. Prices range from $5-100k depending on your level of DIY and how dangerous of a classic car you want on the other side of the process.
[1] https://coloradosun.com/2023/06/25/classic-cars-electric-veh...","time":1777915342,"type":"comment"},{"by":"deckar01","id":48018442,"parent":48009840,"text":"That Vagabond Builds video... They edited it, but left in a claim it had a frunk. The commentary felt like engagement optimized stream of consciousness blather. They cut out shots of the car being moved and never showed it being driven.","time":1777959090,"type":"comment"},{"by":"hnav","id":48011799,"kids":[48012408,48018699,48016830,48013222,48015393,48014664,48016276,48016789,48012202],"parent":48009840,"text":"Retro-electric stuff makes so little sense since it's the worst of all worlds. Part of why Teslas get decent range is the slippery body. I wince every time I see people clamoring for the VW Scout reboot. Rivian too with their 140kwh batteries just to give people that nostalgic body-on-frame SUV look with usable range.","time":1777915373,"type":"comment"},{"by":"rootusrootus","id":48011859,"parent":48009840,"text":"That's really cool, though I confess I would have preferred the interior to have been more Mustang and less Model 3. Just a quibble, though, the effort is fantastic.","time":1777915601,"type":"comment"},{"by":"wishinghand","id":48011059,"kids":[48011127],"parent":48009840,"text":"I’d love to do something similar to an El Camino. I don’t even need triple digit range; I’d use it as a local runabout, mostly to my art studio.","time":1777912702,"type":"comment"},{"by":"kleiba2","id":48019012,"parent":48009840,"text":"OMG, that steering wheel is just hideous!","time":1777964578,"type":"comment"},{"by":"beedeebeedee","id":48011128,"parent":48009840,"text":"Neat. I would have preferred the original interior over Tesla's, but I guess it would then just be an electric conversion and not a "Tesla" conversion with "FSD".","time":1777912946,"type":"comment"},{"by":"jazzyjackson","id":48011228,"kids":[48011296,48015095],"parent":48009840,"text":"Whatever happened to the electric delorean reboot?
EDIT: at one point whoever owned the name also owned a warehouse of spare parts and was going to produce an electric retrofit kit for the old vehicle, and hinting at manufacturing new ones a la retromod. Whoever owns the name now just has concept rendering on their site and a Solana token, so, little more than a meme coin now :(","time":1777913222,"type":"comment"},{"by":"loeg","id":48011789,"kids":[48014002,48015408,48013731],"parent":48009840,"text":"> It’s likely the first non-Tesla vehicle to run FSD, and it achieves 258 Wh/mi — roughly matching the efficiency of an actual Model 3.
This claim is implausible, right? The Mustang is unambiguously less aerodynamic than the Model 3; there's no way it is achieving similar efficiency, especially at highway speeds.","time":1777915342,"type":"comment"},{"by":"aliljet","id":48017319,"parent":48009840,"text":"This is so cool. I would love to revitalize a generation of great, but perhaps boring older cars with FSD. Just so much work...","time":1777947074,"type":"comment"},{"by":"theklub","id":48017142,"parent":48009840,"text":"So where is the startup to convert any car to electric?","time":1777945628,"type":"comment"},{"by":"LurkandComment","id":48011454,"kids":[48011765],"parent":48009840,"text":"I've been waiting for someone to do something like this as long as I've known electric cars to be a thing. I hope they just start making them like this.","time":1777914042,"type":"comment"},{"deleted":true,"id":48015549,"parent":48009840,"time":1777931889,"type":"comment"},{"by":"xbar","id":48016804,"kids":[48017359],"parent":48009840,"text":"That is the safest 1966 Mustang on the road.","time":1777942677,"type":"comment"},{"by":"hiroto_lemon","id":48016967,"parent":48009840,"text":"I hope they implement this in other car models as well, and make autonomous driving possible in Japan too.","time":1777944175,"type":"comment"},{"by":"yabooey","id":48011914,"parent":48009840,"text":"This is such a waste of time and money and wow it’s absolutely gorgeous and I want it","time":1777915815,"type":"comment"},{"by":"jefurii","id":48012064,"parent":48009840,"text":"When will I be able to get an affordable restomod for my early-2000s Jetta?","time":1777916383,"type":"comment"},{"by":"t1234s","id":48011491,"kids":[48011779],"parent":48009840,"text":"I wonder if tesla will see this and try to invalidate the VIN from using FSD","time":1777914169,"type":"comment"},{"by":"annoyingnoob","id":48011167,"parent":48009840,"text":"Interesting, love the concept. Don't love the modern interior.","time":1777913052,"type":"comment"},{"by":"sedatk","id":48013917,"kids":[48013974],"parent":48009840,"text":"It should've been a black Pontiac Trans-Am.","time":1777923759,"type":"comment"},{"by":"sandworm101","id":48017683,"parent":48009840,"text":"A 66 mustang ... without the sound? A lion without a roar.
And at these prices, you would reduce far more carbon by investing that money in solar panels. 50k buys at least a 20kw system that would more than make up for your summer weekend drives in a classic mustang.","time":1777951173,"type":"comment"},{"by":"WalterBright","id":48015039,"parent":48009840,"text":"I took my 1972 Dodge small block engine out and converted it to 400 hp. Had to upgrade the transmission, driveline, brakes, radiator, and suspension to match. I self-drive it.","time":1777928987,"type":"comment"},{"by":"drdebug","id":48011488,"kids":[48011806],"parent":48009840,"text":"Nice work, but is it just me or does this take away from the car’s original spirit?","time":1777914159,"type":"comment"},{"by":"Forgeties79","id":48016940,"parent":48009840,"text":"Still bothers me that “full self driving” is not fully self driving. They shouldn’t be allowed to call it that.","time":1777943898,"type":"comment"},{"by":"gedy","id":48011935,"parent":48009840,"text":"I know this is not the way the industry or regulations work, but I wish electric car platforms let you pick body styles without waiting for a whole model to come out. I'd love an electric Suzuki Jimny body, and could care less about the driving platform.","time":1777915872,"type":"comment"},{"by":"dainiusse","id":48012772,"kids":[48012839],"parent":48009840,"text":"Why destroy this beauty","time":1777919129,"type":"comment"},{"by":"AtlasBarfed","id":48016623,"parent":48009840,"text":"I have a dream that electric motors + battery get so compact that you can make kits that fit engine blocks and large numbers of cars can be custom swapped relatively cheaply.","time":1777940619,"type":"comment"},{"deleted":true,"id":48015310,"parent":48009840,"time":1777930491,"type":"comment"},{"by":"dmix","id":48010909,"parent":48009840,"text":"People have been doing these conversions forever with teslas.","time":1777912129,"type":"comment"},{"by":"AndrewKemendo","id":48011148,"parent":48009840,"text":"There was a shop in Dallas back about 20 years ago that did an electric conversion of a H1 Humvee. Since then there’s been lots more conversions like that and to me that is a valid recycling business.","time":1777913005,"type":"comment"},{"by":"sublinear","id":48010787,"kids":[48011399,48011304],"parent":48009840,"text":"> It demonstrates that Tesla’s hardware and software stack is more portable than the company’s licensing struggles would suggest.
Unless I missed something, this is a completely unsupported claim by the article. Passion projects and retrofits are nothing at all like manufacturing.","time":1777911740,"type":"comment"},{"by":"anshumankmr","id":48017132,"parent":48009840,"text":"good luck getting it repaired though honestly this is really cool","time":1777945531,"type":"comment"},{"by":"ardit33","id":48014813,"parent":48009840,"text":"It is basically a Mustang body on a tesla chasis... which misses the point of having a classic car.
While there is nothing wrong with converting your classic car to electric, if the powertrain is shot (they are harder to maintain as they age), but IMO, it looses the charm of the point of having a classical car.
Few years ago, there was a trend to do these conversions, but that stopped as people realised the car loses its charm and the feel of having old classic car, and most of them are not being used as dailies anyways.","time":1777927953,"type":"comment"},{"by":"oomuinio","dead":true,"id":48016052,"parent":48009840,"text":"[dead]","time":1777935425,"type":"comment"},{"by":"zthrowaway","id":48011521,"kids":[48011729],"parent":48009840,"text":"As a classic car owner/hobbyist, this disgusts me. But thankfully there are at least 200k other restored/restorable 60s Mustangs out there.","time":1777914281,"type":"comment"},{"by":"actionfromafar","id":48011701,"parent":48009840,"text":"Oh, a good looking Tesla.","time":1777915018,"type":"comment"}]},{"by":"cft","descendants":187,"id":48012735,"kids":[48013060,48014233,48015935,48018497,48019131,48013103,48013818,48013119,48013310,48018997,48013027,48014166,48015183,48017069,48015375,48015762,48015894,48018425,48015841,48014480,48017942,48015522,48013679,48013251,48013584,48013397,48016903,48016463,48013197,48014445,48013324,48013756,48014557,48013054],"score":526,"time":1777918962,"title":"Microsoft Edge stores all passwords in memory in clear text, even when unused","type":"story","url":"https://twitter.com/L1v1ng0ffTh3L4N/status/2051308329880719730","comments":[{"by":"gruez","id":48013060,"kids":[48015596,48014838,48013242,48015497,48014440,48014907,48016077,48018642,48015528,48013525,48015948,48013553,48014048,48016428,48013460],"parent":48012735,"text":"This feels like a case of "It rather involved being on the other side of this airtight hatchway"[1]. If you can read arbitrary process memory, you're probably also in a position to just dump out the passwords by pretending to be the user in question.
> If an attacker gains administrative access on a terminal server, they can access the memory of all logged‑on user processes.
If an attacker has administrative access, they can also attach a debugger to every chrome process and force it to decrypt all the passwords. The only difference this really makes is in coldboot attacks, but even then it's still not clear whether it makes the attacker's job slightly easier, or allows an attack that's otherwise not possible.
[1] https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20060508-22/?p=31...","time":1777920188,"type":"comment"},{"by":"ylk","id":48014233,"kids":[48019300,48016266],"parent":48012735,"text":"For reference, this is how Google says Chrome stores passwords encrypted in memory and uses an elevated service to prevent other processes from impersonating Chrome and gaining access to the plain text passwords: https://security.googleblog.com/2024/07/improving-security-o...","time":1777925123,"type":"comment"},{"by":"golem14","id":48015935,"kids":[48017413],"parent":48012735,"text":"Since it's not been clearly stated: One attack vector might be that I step out to the bathroom for 5 minutes without locking computer, and evil hacker just dumps all my passwords before I come back.
I think it's worthwhile considering this. There's a reason why password managers ask for a master password or passkey after 10 minutes. Since I thought Chrome relied on an encrypted enclave, it isn't quite feasible to extract passwords easily even with root access.
Yes, you shouldn't leave your computer unattended. But that doesn't mean designing products that make exploiting the inevitable slipup fatal.","time":1777934601,"type":"comment"},{"by":"pjmlp","id":48018497,"kids":[48018533],"parent":48012735,"text":"As do almost every microservice out there, by storing credentials in environment variables, an exploit that manages to read container's memory is enough.
I keep looking for frameworks that do it the right way, holding critical data encrypted all time, but it isn't a thing most people worry about.","time":1777959615,"type":"comment"},{"by":"AJRF","id":48019131,"parent":48012735,"text":"I feel like there is a problem with security research where the incentive is to find scary headlines, and things that have very little impact get trotted out as world shattering revelations. This seems like one of those times - feels like an "assume a perfectly spherical cow" moment - if you are at the point where you have access to attempt to read this, the kingdom is already lost?","time":1777965646,"type":"comment"},{"by":"kleiba2","id":48013103,"kids":[48013281],"parent":48012735,"text":"Does this tool access an Edge instance running on the same machine? Couldn't you then just simply export all saved passwords anyway?
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/export-passwords-i...","time":1777920357,"type":"comment"},{"by":"nubinetwork","id":48013818,"parent":48012735,"text":"Yeah, you can probably do the same thing to pam on linux... just attach gdb to openssh or your getty login process.","time":1777923247,"type":"comment"},{"by":"myHNAccount123","id":48013119,"parent":48012735,"text":"https://xcancel.com/L1v1ng0ffTh3L4N/status/20513083298807197...","time":1777920404,"type":"comment"},{"by":"dkenyser","id":48013310,"kids":[48018172],"parent":48012735,"text":"Anyone have a link to the source code for this .exe? Would love to see _how_ it's extracting them.","time":1777921180,"type":"comment"},{"by":"danborn26","id":48018997,"parent":48012735,"text":"This seems like a significant oversight for a modern browser. Credential material should be aggressively zeroed out after use to minimize the attack surface.","time":1777964348,"type":"comment"},{"by":"mfro","id":48013027,"kids":[48019484,48013111],"parent":48012735,"text":"To be fair, 'loads into memory' and 'stores' are not the same thing.","time":1777920081,"type":"comment"},{"by":"timedude","id":48014166,"kids":[48014369],"parent":48012735,"text":"That's kinda stupid. The passwords could get swapped to disk in the swap file in plaintext when memory is low by the OS.","time":1777924871,"type":"comment"},{"by":"aslihana","id":48015183,"kids":[48015243,48015766],"parent":48012735,"text":"Correct me if I am wrong but chrome is-at least was- keeping passwords as raw text in Windows too. I got friend's forgotten password from Chrome on 2021 version","time":1777929755,"type":"comment"},{"by":"peterdemin","id":48017069,"parent":48012735,"text":"Sorry for off topic, is the situation the same with Safari on MacOS? I have to touch-id every time I fill the password, so it seems like it’s not available in-memory.","time":1777945037,"type":"comment"},{"by":"zx8080","id":48015375,"parent":48012735,"text":"The only important question is: does Chrome store passwords in the same way as Edge?","time":1777930730,"type":"comment"},{"by":"notepad0x90","id":48015762,"parent":48012735,"text":"mixed feelings on this, edge is supposed to store creds via DPAPI to the most part. you should also really not use password saving feature on edge (or any browser), it exposes you to a lot more threats that you need.
But.. saved passwords are not the same thing as "secrets" the browser uses. It has to be able to provide plain text passwords to websites. This is a really bad feature browsers should just not have to begin with, but they do, and I don't see a better way to use this.
In the past, they used to store the passwords in sqlite dbs, but now they've moved away from that at least.
From an attack perspective, there maybe some instances where you can dump memory, but you can't attach a debugger to the process without getting caught. so it does make a little bit of a difference there, but microsoft will probably tell you this isn't a security boundary that's being crossed. They can store it via DPAPI in lsass, and if lsass isolation is enabled (only on physical computers, default on win11) even SYSTEM privilege won't get you the credentials.
But what's the idea here, you have access to the browser, but you can't visit the site the password is saved for to make it "in use" and in plain text, so you can dump the password? I mean, even if you don't have access to the desktop, you can just start msedge.exe with the URL for the site as an argument and trigger the password retrieval.
Edge has done a lot to improve credential security, even DPAPI's existence itself is huge. If your research has meat, that's great but I don't see it here.
This feels like some "researcher" hyping themselves up to me, but I could be wrong.
Also, I really despise how they posted this on twitter, not even considering the political landmine there, I can't see the comments or threads on there without logging in. I can't visit the site on mobile without being redirected to download the app. I just wanted to mention that if you use X as a security professional in this day and age, my opinion of you drops by like 50% immediately. I don't care if you use bluesky, vk, telegram, discord,facebook, threads or whatever else, twitter is the worst place for you to share your work and you should know better.","time":1777933512,"type":"comment"},{"by":"pezezin","id":48015894,"parent":48012735,"text":"The real mistake is that we are still using simple password authentication instead of challenge-response or public key authentication.","time":1777934346,"type":"comment"},{"by":"ivolimmen","id":48018425,"parent":48012735,"text":"We have an automated task that runs the OWASP plugin (Maven on Java stack) that automatically creates a JIRA issue if there is any issue found.\nSo I pickup the JIRA ticket and look at the CVE. First things first I __READ__ the actual CVE.\nScore: 7, ok that is bad\nHacker can do ANYTHING by using the tmp file on THE ACTUAL MACHINE\n... drag to cancel","time":1777958964,"type":"comment"},{"by":"AzzyHN","id":48015841,"parent":48012735,"text":"And firefox stores them unencrypted by default","time":1777933982,"type":"comment"},{"by":"matof","id":48014480,"parent":48012735,"text":"Edge is built by a company not focusing on user data-protection, so no surprise here. At least Brave and Firefox are usable and actual competitors, but have a business model based on user security rather than data.","time":1777926290,"type":"comment"},{"by":"iberator","id":48017942,"parent":48012735,"text":"That's why each page of the RAM memory should be AES encrypted with a key in hardware...
This is the future and I think IBM got such technology like 50 years ago envisioned.","time":1777954130,"type":"comment"},{"by":"LunicLynx","id":48015522,"parent":48012735,"text":"You are absolutely right, having copilot does not help at all here.","time":1777931694,"type":"comment"},{"by":"FuriouslyAdrift","id":48013679,"parent":48012735,"text":"A reminder that Edge is just Chromium plus some Microsoft hooks for automated SSO.","time":1777922591,"type":"comment"},{"by":"busterarm","id":48013251,"kids":[48013554,48013384],"parent":48012735,"text":"For anyone that thinks this is an Edge-specific dunk, Chrome does not hash your passwords and they are cleartext in memory while Chrome is running (which for most users is always).","time":1777920974,"type":"comment"},{"by":"jmclnx","id":48013584,"parent":48012735,"text":"In this day and time Microsoft should really know better. But I have seen this, and worse, happen over and over again in some fortune 500 companies with ERP and in-house systems.
I would think this is a local vulnerability assuming Windows works as other OSs.","time":1777922187,"type":"comment"},{"deleted":true,"id":48013397,"parent":48012735,"time":1777921515,"type":"comment"},{"by":"kronks","dead":true,"id":48016903,"parent":48012735,"text":"[dead]","time":1777943528,"type":"comment"},{"by":"animanoir","dead":true,"id":48016463,"parent":48012735,"text":"[dead]","time":1777938869,"type":"comment"},{"by":"WolfeReader","id":48013197,"kids":[48013239,48013228,48013290],"parent":48012735,"text":"Please use a dedicated password manager, instead of a browser-based one. KeePass is likely the best going forward.","time":1777920753,"type":"comment"},{"by":"fsflover","id":48014445,"kids":[48017666],"parent":48012735,"text":"I don't understand, who are all these people who care about security and at the same time are using Microsoft Edge. Could someone enlighten me? Does it have some specific features that somebody needs?","time":1777926133,"type":"comment"},{"by":"thumbsup-_-","id":48013324,"kids":[48013470],"parent":48012735,"text":"Its Microsoft doing Microsoft things","time":1777921223,"type":"comment"},{"by":"jdlyga","id":48013756,"parent":48012735,"text":"My brain stores all my passwords in memory in clear text too","time":1777922883,"type":"comment"},{"by":"OptionOfT","id":48014557,"parent":48012735,"text":"I think in general one should not assume anything in Edge is done correctly. Microsoft Edge is the place where things get tried out my Microsoft, that's why it changes so fast. It has a built-in updater that is not tied to Windows update, and as such they can iterate incredibly fast.","time":1777926659,"type":"comment"},{"by":"mghackerlady","id":48013054,"parent":48012735,"text":"Why wouldn't it? What else would you expect from the p̶e̶o̶p̶l̶e̶ masochists who subjected us to internet explorer","time":1777920177,"type":"comment"}]},{"by":"remote-dev","descendants":314,"id":48011184,"kids":[48011953,48014627,48015723,48015423,48015015,48012074,48018107,48015880,48013190,48012427,48016530,48011918,48014707,48012017,48011879,48011750,48015516,48014180,48012536,48016762,48012131,48012289,48015969,48013257,48011818,48013269,48012998,48017855,48014327,48012026,48013214,48014773,48012620,48014759,48013903,48012253,48016506,48011814,48013393,48011971,48012204,48012187,48014709,48015909,48012708,48012812,48015446,48015809,48012072,48013668,48014544,48011973,48013260,48014384,48011878,48019104,48015131,48014537,48015384,48014126,48012138,48013597,48013517,48014958,48012305,48015776,48015765,48018599,48013836,48012750,48012047,48011916,48015527,48016271,48012705,48013455,48015520,48011956],"score":482,"time":1777913100,"title":"I am worried about Bun","type":"story","url":"https://wwj.dev/posts/i-am-worried-about-bun/","comments":[{"by":"AntonyGarand","id":48011953,"kids":[48013837,48012381,48013061,48013286,48012079,48014994,48012832,48013077,48016309,48015192,48014450,48012598],"parent":48011184,"text":"I disagree with the overall premise: Before the acquisition, Bun had to figure out how to monetize at some point.
Now, even though their parent company does some shitty practices with their other software (claude code), it's a stretch to assume this will also translate into making Bun worse: Being worried makes sense but I remain optimistic about Bun.
Especially given the context of both of these different context: Claude Code is a gem of Anthropic, experiencing extreme growth and where any of its change can result in billing issues.
Bun is a JS runtime, and regardless of its growth, can focus on being the best runtime possible: It doesn't impact billing nor the bottom line of Anthropic, so they don't have to rush out patches due to abuse unlike CC.
It's unclear how it will pan out over the next years, still very early on the acquisition to see if anything will change, but I'm not concerned just yet.","time":1777915924,"type":"comment"},{"by":"nwienert","id":48014627,"kids":[48015971],"parent":48011184,"text":"Bun has never really been well run. Every feature it had was full of bugs and gaps. And every release fixed a few but broke others.
They released more major features and breaking changes in their last patch release than most software sees in two major versions.
I've been using it just as a script runner and npm package manager basically, and it's incredible the amount of work you have to do to find "good" versions. We've had patch versions suddenly freeze on install more than once, we couldn't upgrade for quite a while due to this. I think they broke postinstall scripts with trustedDependencies entirely two minor versions ago - not a mention in release notes, and somehow no one reporting it in GH issues. In 1.1 or so you could get Bun to do trustedDependency builds in postinstall, and then after that you couldn't. I looked around for release notes and saw nothing mentioned. It's been broken for months.","time":1777927053,"type":"comment"},{"by":"thot_experiment","id":48015723,"kids":[48016316,48016298,48015818,48016939,48017187,48018982,48015899,48015759,48016935,48017100],"parent":48011184,"text":"Why people use Deno and Bun over Node? I think it's neat that there are competitors for JS runtimes, but I really don't understand what advantages I'd get by swapping to one of these over Node. Bun has no REPL and worse JS engine, Deno is just Node with a restrictive, annoying permission system and no sqlite. Both claim better performance, but that only seems true in cherrypicked benchmarks, and in my tests (granted about a year ago at this point) both alternatives under-performed Node in my workloads. What am I missing?
EDIT: Actually I just remembered I delivered a small ERP tool to a business a while back and I did opt to use I think Bun for that because it had the most robust tools to wrap a project into an `*.exe`, that was definitely a better experience than Node. Though since that was dependency-less JS I did the whole thing using Node and then just shipped it with Bun.","time":1777933218,"type":"comment"},{"by":"Jarred","id":48015423,"kids":[48015648,48016240,48016004,48017207,48015540,48017058,48016422],"parent":48011184,"text":"I work on Bun, and this post is confusing to me. Me personally and the Bun team continues to dogfood & make Bun better everyday. Our development pace has only gotten faster. Bun's stability has improved significantly since joining Anthropic.
Here are some things shipping in the next version of Bun:
- 17 MB smaller Windows x64 binaries [0]
- 8 MB smaller Linux binaries [1]
- `--no-orphans` CLI flag to recursively kill any lingering processes spawned [3]
- SSL context caching for client TCP & unix sockets, which significantly reduces memory usage for database clients like Mongoose/MongoDB [4]
- Experimental HTTP/3 & HTTP/2 client in fetch [5]
- Experimental HTTP/3 support in Bun.serve() [6]
- Bun.Image, a builtin image processing library [7]
(Along with several reliability improvements to node:fs, Worker, BroadcastChannel, and MessagePort)
The Anthropic acquisition also means Bun no longer needs to become a revenue-generating business. We are very incentivized to make Bun better because Claude Code depends on it, and so many software engineers depend on Claude Code to help get their work done.
[0]: https://github.com/oven-sh/bun/pull/30219
[1]: https://github.com/oven-sh/bun/pull/30098
[2]: https://github.com/oven-sh/WebKit/pull/211
[3]: https://github.com/oven-sh/bun/pull/29930
[4]: https://github.com/oven-sh/bun/pull/29932
[5]: https://github.com/oven-sh/bun/pull/29863
[6]: https://github.com/oven-sh/bun/pull/30032","time":1777930978,"type":"comment"},{"by":"jpsimons","id":48015015,"kids":[48015946,48015536,48015054],"parent":48011184,"text":"I just spent a couple hours migrating my knife sharpening website backend from Bun to Node. Feels good to avoid that lock-in. I was initially gung-ho for Bun but increasingly unsure about it. Things I'll miss for sure:
- Querying sqlite with tagged template literals
- Bun.password.verify being argon2 is a better default
- HTML imports
- JSX transpilation
- Auto loading .env file
https://burlyburr.com, which hits https://backend.burlyburr.com","time":1777928860,"type":"comment"},{"by":"rtrigoso","id":48012074,"kids":[48014337,48014063],"parent":48011184,"text":"I agree with OP, and understand why to some it feels premature.
We live in a vastly different world than before, where people are more conscious of ethical concerns and willing to stand on their ground to avoid repeating past mistakes.
It might be premature from a tech standard, but it makes sense from an ethical concern. I don't think misconduct is as easily backtracked as it was before and preemptive measures are needed to avoid the large impact that those decisions make.","time":1777916425,"type":"comment"},{"by":"jFriedensreich","id":48018107,"parent":48011184,"text":"Bun is basically a lost case in the same way that claude code is. Many people love both and thats fine as long it is their personal choice. But freedom loving orgs can never ever depend on either for anything ever or build anything on top. The main problem in this picture is projects who don’t understand or remember the internet explorer hell are using bun only features to a degree that you cannot just switch. Even opencode who should have the biggest aversion to depend on anthropic is doing this and it drives me insane. Have you all lost your mind or let your agents blindly lock you into whatever hell wants to own you?","time":1777956067,"type":"comment"},{"by":"STRiDEX","id":48015880,"kids":[48015901,48016071],"parent":48011184,"text":"I don't think bun worked well before the acquisition. Don't get me wrong, i used it all the time for little scripts, but i would never ship a service at work on bun. Between memory issues and incompatibilities that never get fixed, it is a nice toy to me that did a great job of exposing room for improvement in nodejs.
For example, i'd been following this issue https://github.com/oven-sh/bun/issues/14102 and eventually all the libraries shipped "if bun do x" into them, which is the opposite of compatibility.","time":1777934246,"type":"comment"},{"by":"ericyd","id":48013190,"kids":[48013339,48013245,48013233],"parent":48011184,"text":"The author closes by enumerating some of the things they like about Bun which are not included in pnpm. The list is basically: native TS support, a vite-style bundler and a vitest/jest style test runner.
Other than a bundler, Node already has all of these. Different test runner syntax maybe but otherwise TS "just works" out of the box and their built in test runner is totally capable. Not sure I see the need for such a lament over Bun.","time":1777920731,"type":"comment"},{"by":"iceboundrock","id":48012427,"kids":[48012673,48013100,48013447],"parent":48011184,"text":"Regardless of Anthropic/ClaudeCode, PerryTS[1] looks like a very promising competitor to Bun.
[1]: https://github.com/PerryTS/perry","time":1777917716,"type":"comment"},{"by":"stopachka","id":48016530,"parent":48011184,"text":"This post seems to "throw doubt" on Bun, based on the OP's experience of Claude Code. But this seems unnecessary indirect. It's not like Bun is hidden software: it's open source and actively developed.
So the more direct question would be: How has Bun actually been since the acquisition?
From what I can tell they have been responding to users as fast as before, and improving the product as well as before.","time":1777939657,"type":"comment"},{"by":"Sevii","id":48011918,"kids":[48012929,48012124],"parent":48011184,"text":"I don't know, I've been using Claude Code since it came out and it really doesn't seem to be getting worse.","time":1777915824,"type":"comment"},{"by":"MoonWalk","id":48014707,"kids":[48015051],"parent":48011184,"text":""I want a serious Node.js alternative."
Then you could have been using Deno, like many of us, for years.","time":1777927415,"type":"comment"},{"by":"0sql","id":48012017,"kids":[48012084],"parent":48011184,"text":"Does bun have a formal roadmap? I occasionally see some the changes that Jarred posts on X, and I wonder if they're really meaningful or not (perf improvements are always good). It also seems like a lot of the recent contributions are ai authored.
I tried using bun for a project earlier this year and learned that you can't use testcontainers(works fine w/ Deno).","time":1777916174,"type":"comment"},{"by":"james2doyle","id":48011879,"parent":48011184,"text":"Maybe look at https://void.cloud/ (Edit: sorry, meant https://viteplus.dev/, not Void cloud)
They are not a runtime, but they do seem to be interested in wrapping a lot of tools with simple top-level commands","time":1777915681,"type":"comment"},{"by":"butterlesstoast","id":48011750,"kids":[48011771],"parent":48011184,"text":">Even though I personally am moving some projects away from Bun, don't take my advice as gospel.
Always appreciated nuance.","time":1777915184,"type":"comment"},{"by":"tracker1","id":48015516,"parent":48011184,"text":"TBF, I really haven't done much of anything with Bun other than occasional module testing. I mostly use Deno for my day to day, including a lot of shell scripts the past few years. I liked the newer ergonomics a lot, direct module references in repositories is really nice for shell scripts.
That said, I'm worried about them having good enough monetization while keeping features open... or at least able to be replicated by others. So I can understand some of the concerns.","time":1777931648,"type":"comment"},{"by":"AYBABTME","id":48014180,"parent":48011184,"text":"That's a lot of very large jumps to come to the conclusion that Bun isn't going to turn out well.","time":1777924931,"type":"comment"},{"by":"DrBenCarson","id":48012536,"parent":48011184,"text":"I made this exact same decisions (bun -> pnpm) for similar reasons, mostly bc I didn’t like how haphazardly a core part of the stack was being vibe coded. Too many changes too quickly for something that’s supposed to be stable","time":1777918133,"type":"comment"},{"by":"chr15m","id":48016762,"kids":[48016820],"parent":48011184,"text":"> team ships constantly
Why do people want this? Shipping constantly is how software breaks. You want tools that are good and stable, not constantly churning. I wish software developers would wake up to the idea that velocity is not a marker of quality.","time":1777942295,"type":"comment"},{"by":"pyrolistical","id":48012131,"kids":[48012197],"parent":48011184,"text":"I love coding with bun. It comes with everything.
For my projects I don’t even need any additional dependencies. I use vanilla dom and sqlite","time":1777916716,"type":"comment"},{"by":"wg0","id":48012289,"kids":[48012383,48014820,48014418],"parent":48011184,"text":"OpenAI and Anthropic both are destined to doom for sure. There's no way around it and it is all in the math. Bun would be a causality. It is only a matter of time.
Only company that would survive the AI race - the one where the current wave was actually invented along with the research paper, the libraries and even specialised hardware: Google.
Google has a serious problem with its product management culture (long list of products and projects, people even skeptical of Flutter) otherwise they would have surpassed Anthropic long ago.","time":1777917234,"type":"comment"},{"by":"jwpapi","id":48015969,"parent":48011184,"text":"I think the motion that Claude Code and Anthropic has is trying to force-hide stuff from you. Some hopefully remember the shitstorm that happened, when they changed. Reading xxx.yy to reading 1 file or reading 2 files.
More changes like this came and they were not or very hard to configure. I understand the business idea behind it. Make them to use AI as much as possible, get the human out of the loop. More training data. More Token Usage JUHUU.
However I think that made Claude Code so much worse and so much more untrusthworthy. It’s a sneaky attempt to take away the driving wheel from you. And if you follow that logic, way more and way more things seem reasonable.
But mainly for now it just generated a lot of distrust for me","time":1777934879,"type":"comment"},{"by":"lrvick","id":48013257,"kids":[48014095],"parent":48011184,"text":"pnpm is even worse. There is no way to bootstrap it without binary blobs making it an easy target supply chain attack waiting to happen that could hide in plain sight indefinitely.","time":1777920997,"type":"comment"},{"by":"jmuguy","id":48011818,"kids":[48012279,48011957,48011979,48011937],"parent":48011184,"text":"Why did you have to stop using Cursor? I ask this as someone that uses Cursor, but recently at a conference I heard it referred to negatively several times - but in a very vague sense. I don't really have a dog in the fight, I'm using it because thats what the other dev I work with is using.","time":1777915465,"type":"comment"},{"by":"theusus","id":48013269,"kids":[48015381],"parent":48011184,"text":"Bun is basically a wrapper over JSCore. I don't think it's that big of a feat. Furthermore they are heavily invested in vendor specific APIs which I think is not good.","time":1777921036,"type":"comment"},{"by":"ezekiel68","id":48012998,"kids":[48013288,48013226],"parent":48011184,"text":"Ugh. I hate these "guilt by association" hit pieces. Nothing is wrong and yet we must signal our virtue.
Might as well just open our pants and wave our wangers, hoping for a better world","time":1777919989,"type":"comment"},{"by":"niksmac","id":48017855,"parent":48011184,"text":"+1 I'll stick with pnpm for now","time":1777953194,"type":"comment"},{"by":"afavour","id":48014327,"kids":[48014769],"parent":48011184,"text":"This isn't anything new and I feel the same way about Deno. We can argue about exactly how much trouble any runtime is in today vs yesterday vs tomorrow but VC funding of a javascript runtime feels inherently unstable to me.
The key question is how much unique tooling you're relying on. If you can switch to Node tomorrow, great. If you can't, make sure you have a contingency plan.","time":1777925537,"type":"comment"},{"by":"hjort-e","id":48012026,"kids":[48012356],"parent":48011184,"text":"vite and it's ecosystem is actually becoming the unified toolchain with vite+. IIRC pnpm will also be the preferred package manager in the tool","time":1777916200,"type":"comment"},{"by":"pjmlp","id":48013214,"parent":48011184,"text":"I still see no monetization with Bun and Deno to keep them going.
You see this all over the place with other programming languages.
The ones that have bleeding edge features do so, because there are companies, or universities (for their PhD and Msc thesis), that invest into those ecosystems.
In the end nodejs will keep improving, with Microsoft and Google's baking, and that will be it.","time":1777920807,"type":"comment"},{"by":"robertjpayne","id":48014773,"parent":48011184,"text":"All these complaints about Claude code are mostly resolved if you pay for your usage with direct API pay as you go. It’s not cheap but nearly all the complaints I see about Claude code are due to the fact the subscription plans seem unsustainable from a cost perspective.","time":1777927761,"type":"comment"},{"deleted":true,"id":48012620,"parent":48011184,"time":1777918516,"type":"comment"},{"by":"avsn","id":48014759,"parent":48011184,"text":"Nothing to worry about anymore, the ship has sailed the moment it was acquired.","time":1777927689,"type":"comment"},{"by":"gwd","id":48013903,"kids":[48014624],"parent":48011184,"text":"> But from the outside, Claude Code looks like a tool moving in the wrong direction. More restrictions, billing weirdness, surprise behavior based on text in commits. That is textbook enshittification.
I've never used Claude Code, but this person doesn't understand what "textbook enshittification" means. "Enshittification" is a feature of certain kinds of business models, progressing through the following stages:
1. Giving away a product free to users, subsidized by venture capital, to gain a monopoly
2. Switching to advertising, then abusing users on behalf of the real customers, advertisers
3. Using monopoly power to abuse real customers (advertisers) to extract as much money as possible
Anthropic's business model doesn't have a "user / customer" dichotomy; their paid users are their customers. And they don't have a monopoly they can use to extract money yet.
ETA: In other words, "Enshittification" isn't just random; you're making the user experience worse in order to make advertiser experience better; and then making advertiser experience worse in order to extract maximum profit. The only complaint that could vaguely be related to profit is the OpenClaw stuff, and that's entirely due to trying to keep the "all-you-can-eat" model for non-OpenClaw users, rather than having to switch everything to metered.","time":1777923696,"type":"comment"},{"by":"pier25","id":48012253,"parent":48011184,"text":"I use Bun and I'm concerned too but it's still too early to tell.
Personally my experience with Bun has been 100% positive so far.
I'm aware full Node support is not there yet and may never happen but with dependencies that support Bun it's been a smooth ride for me.","time":1777917100,"type":"comment"},{"by":"traderj0e","id":48016506,"parent":48011184,"text":"So who controls NodeJS? https://openjsf.org/governance has Microsoft as the chair. And Microsoft owns npm. It's kinda hard to avoid a corp controlling these tools.
The author seems more focused on the thing where Anthropic fights OpenClaw usage unless you have the right billing set up for that. Frankly I just don't care about those complaints, all the LLM services want you to set up a non-subsidized billing method to use OpenClaw because it uses lots of tokens. It doesn't mean they're going to crap on Bun.
The only reason I don't use Bun is I never ran into a situation where Node didn't cut it. Even though my least favorite tech corp controls Node.","time":1777939374,"type":"comment"},{"deleted":true,"id":48011814,"parent":48011184,"time":1777915439,"type":"comment"},{"by":"AtNightWeCode","id":48013393,"parent":48011184,"text":"One thing is sure. Claude has become terrible. Criticize any code Opus 4.7 created and it starts a blame game. Also. It denies that a version 4.7 even exists. Will look into moving back to ChatGPT that I quit because the mandatory spyware bs they added which I believe they nuked.","time":1777921481,"type":"comment"},{"by":"wxw","id":48011971,"kids":[48012555],"parent":48011184,"text":"> Will we see issues start popping up in Bun that make it seem like the team doesn't even dogfood their own product? I don't know, but I'm not sure I want to continue using it just in case.
I sympathize with the general premise. The reaction to move away seems pre-mature though.
It sounds like `bun` is still performing just as well as before, and this sentiment isn't based on concrete changes. I also wouldn't expect infrastructure like `bun` to evolve in the way a consumer-facing product, especially one scaling as quickly as Claude Code, can.","time":1777915993,"type":"comment"},{"by":"suck-my-spez","id":48012204,"parent":48011184,"text":"I still don't think Bun is production ready.\nWe just ripped bun out of a bunch of our production sevices. CPU runaway and memory leaks. All solved by switching back to nodejs.","time":1777916931,"type":"comment"},{"by":"twoodfin","id":48012187,"parent":48011184,"text":"I’m confident that any unhappiness with Claude Code is at least 95% downstream of Anthropic seeing demand scale their revenue by ~3X in 6 months from a $multi-billion annual base.
Their product focus, roadmap, or execution is likely a rounding error in the face of that tsunami.
Frankly, it’s shocking they’re doing so well relative to, say, GitHub.","time":1777916874,"type":"comment"},{"by":"photios","id":48014709,"parent":48011184,"text":""Friendship ended with Bun, now pnpm is my best friend" the post...","time":1777927428,"type":"comment"},{"by":"bricss","id":48015909,"parent":48011184,"text":"Are Bun and Deno in the room with us right now?","time":1777934421,"type":"comment"},{"by":"esafak","id":48012708,"parent":48011184,"text":"Don't fret; the creator of mise has released a faster alternative: https://github.com/endevco/aube","time":1777918894,"type":"comment"},{"by":"fhn","id":48012812,"kids":[48013149,48012862,48015231,48013411,48014259,48012990,48012936,48013004,48012840],"parent":48011184,"text":"I wonder why Anthropic chose to spend money on Bun when they could have easily spend that resource on Go which is fairly easy to use and fast. I'm sure their SWEs could easily everything things in Go. Anyone have insight on why?","time":1777919259,"type":"comment"},{"by":"sibeliuss","id":48015446,"kids":[48015490],"parent":48011184,"text":"This is all so speculative and whatevs","time":1777931191,"type":"comment"},{"by":"roywiggins","id":48015809,"parent":48011184,"text":"> That is textbook enshittification.
Technically, no, not textbook enshittification. Enshittification was originally meant to refer to companies squeezing two-sided markets, not products just getting kinda worse.","time":1777933780,"type":"comment"},{"by":"deanc","id":48012072,"parent":48011184,"text":"Let them cook. Anything that they can do to get rid of the absolute hell that is dependencies in the JS ecosystem is worthwhile. I really don't care what they add as long as it's maintained","time":1777916412,"type":"comment"},{"by":"agosta","id":48013668,"kids":[48014921],"parent":48011184,"text":"Umm, just use Deno? Everything author seems to love about Bun exists in Deno.","time":1777922543,"type":"comment"},{"by":"moomoo11","id":48014544,"kids":[48014660,48014902],"parent":48011184,"text":"Why do people use bun? Would like an answer from an actual experienced / staff tier or higher engineer.","time":1777926601,"type":"comment"},{"by":"b4rtaz__","id":48011973,"parent":48011184,"text":"Personally, I suspect that Bun is a Silicon Valley attempt to lock some companies into its stack (similar to what cloud providers, Next.js + Vercel do). Especially now that Anthropic has become an owner, I'll be keeping Bun at a considerable distance.
The funniest part to me is that 10–15 years ago, companies were stuck in the development process due to binary (closed) dependencies. Now they're jumping into the same trap under a different name.
Maybe I’ve missed some scandals, but so far OpenJS Foundation is the best thing that has happened for the JavaScript ecosystem.","time":1777916000,"type":"comment"},{"by":"coolThingsFirst","id":48013260,"parent":48011184,"text":"Bun does great on their own benchmarks.","time":1777921009,"type":"comment"},{"by":"namuol","id":48014384,"kids":[48015294,48014416],"parent":48011184,"text":"I see the word “enshittify” being thrown around casually about Claude Code. We’re far from that part of the Enshittification cycle still. This is just a mismanaged product and the result of an extremely competitive market that moves too fast.
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by incompetence, etc.","time":1777925833,"type":"comment"},{"by":"yabooey","id":48011878,"parent":48011184,"text":"Mostly in my day to day routine, where is use Claude Code maybe 90% of the time, I don’t see that it’s become that bad. Yes they’ve made some questionable decisions on API usage and OpenClaw but I feel like this post is making it out to be worse than it is.
That being said I’ve been worried about the future of Bun anyway. Especially if the AI bubble pops. Then again, it’s open source.","time":1777915676,"type":"comment"},{"by":"jedisct1","id":48019104,"parent":48011184,"text":"I’m even more worried after reading this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48016880
So Bun is going to become a fully vibe-coded codebase, with important details lost in translation.
I’ve been a huge supporter of Bun, but now I’d be extremely reluctant to deploy it in production.
It’s also a bit disappointing to see Jared change his mind so quickly. He’s an incredible developer with deep knowledge of how to write clean, maintainable, efficient code. But now it feels like his talent is being sidelined, and Claude has been given full control over the codebase.
Claude Code itself seems to be built that way: they keep piling on new features every day, but it has become this big, bloated Frankenstein slug.
Bun used to be a small, elegant, clean codebase. Now I’m worried it may turn into an unreliable mess.","time":1777965415,"type":"comment"},{"by":"jillesvangurp","id":48015131,"parent":48011184,"text":"Here's how I evaluate whether I'm going to use a given bit of OSS:
- Is the project important to me or can I replace it? If the latter, I'm more likely to allow failures of other criteria. If not, I need to be more strict. Bun is easy enough to replace if something were to happen to the project. Easy come, easy go.
- Are there any red flags in financing that could become problematic? Many VC funded OSS companies fail this test for me. What happens when they don't make it? What happens post IPO if they do? What happens when they get acquihired? Mostly that's up to share holders, not developers. Most VC funded companies actually don't make it and that's normal in the VC world. A few companies make it, everything else fails quickly. And there are a few examples of projects that have changed licenses under pressure of shareholders. That's why this is a red flag to me. I've used Redis and Elasticsearch, for example. And I switched away from Mongo before they changed the license. I used Terraform before they open sourced. All negative examples here.
Bun initially wasn't great on this. But the Anthropic acquisition has improved things a bit. It's still a risk. But it's unlikely they have any plans for Bun other than just keeping it alive by employing the main people working on it. Anthropic itself might still fail of course.
- Has the project been around for a long time. If so, it likely has a stable community and funding. There are no guarantees but the older the better. Bun is pretty newish still.
- Is the project stable and under active development? If it's stable because nobody makes changes anymore that's usually not a great sign. If it is stable despite a lot of active development, that's really positive. It means somebody competent is in charge. Bun seems pretty good on that front.
- Is the project otherwise structured right to be future proof. For me future proof is a combination of contributor community, commercial activity, and licensing. The more diverse the contributor community the better. If there are multiple companies sponsoring and making money of a project, that makes it less likely that a single one can hijack it for their own good. This is more common with permissively licensed software (but there are exceptions). Bun doesn't have much commercial activity around it and the regular contributor community is tiny. One person seems to be doing most of the work with only a handful of notable other contributors that are probably all Anthropic employed at this point. Out of these, the dependence on a single person looks the most problematic to me.
So, the overall score for bun is not perfect (there a few potential red flags) but I'm happy to risk using it because it's not that critical to me and easily replaceable.
My read of the whole Anthropic acquihire is that it is an improvement over the starting point which was a VC funded company that was probably going to fail otherwise. Otherwise, good tech and generally nice to use. I could see Anthropic going bad and this project surviving in one form or another. So, that doesn't have to be a show stopper.","time":1777929473,"type":"comment"},{"by":"forrestthewoods","id":48014537,"parent":48011184,"text":"Claude is currently unusable for me on Windows because bun keeps crashing
:(","time":1777926564,"type":"comment"},{"by":"orliesaurus","id":48015384,"parent":48011184,"text":"has anyone forked bun?","time":1777930773,"type":"comment"},{"by":"lstodd","id":48014126,"parent":48011184,"text":"What is there to worry about? If we believe AI crowd, Bun and entire JS ecosystem is done for. Dead. Nothing to worry about since nothing's left.
If as claimed everyone and his malnourished cellar rat can whip up a SaaS on a whim, then why that SaaS should be built upon chromium+js+http instead of tcp+native ui?
Remember, choice of ui is no longer a constraint. Nothing is a constraint or so they say.
So it follows that all this javascript stuff can at last die.","time":1777924710,"type":"comment"},{"by":"jonas21","id":48012138,"kids":[48012309,48012200],"parent":48011184,"text":"The issues with Claude Code lately look to me like symptoms of being part of a service that is experiencing insane growth (fastest growth in history, by far [1]), while being severely constrained on adding capacity (GPUs are hard to get quickly right now, even if you have the money). I assume they're constantly fighting fires trying to keep the core use cases of Claude Code working, even if that means limiting OpenClaw usage in somewhat draconian ways.
It's annoying, but I don't see this as a bad thing at all for Bun.
[1] https://www.axios.com/2026/04/13/anthropic-revenue-growth-ai","time":1777916730,"type":"comment"},{"by":"josefritzishere","id":48013597,"parent":48011184,"text":"Ray Bradbury foresaw this.","time":1777922245,"type":"comment"},{"deleted":true,"id":48013517,"parent":48011184,"time":1777921928,"type":"comment"},{"deleted":true,"id":48014958,"parent":48011184,"time":1777928541,"type":"comment"},{"by":"Imustaskforhelp","id":48012305,"parent":48011184,"text":"Aube[0] seems interesting to me, I have submitted it as show HN after hearing about your post. Its created by the same person who has made mise and I actually discovered it when I was browsing through on mise.en.dev website
I still use bun, but I think that there are some other pathways so I am not that worried about myself personally. But that's also because I most often than not code in golang rather than typescript/javascript
[0]: https://aube.en.dev/","time":1777917290,"type":"comment"},{"by":"periodjet","id":48015776,"parent":48011184,"text":"The term “enshittification” really ruins (one might say “enshittifies”) any article it’s in.","time":1777933567,"type":"comment"},{"by":"whimsicalism","id":48015765,"parent":48011184,"text":"Millenials of the redditor class desperately need a moratorium on the word enshittifying.","time":1777933522,"type":"comment"},{"by":"mvdtnz","id":48018599,"parent":48011184,"text":"What an utterly baffling post. Moving away from a tool that you love proactively because you're concerned it might degrade in quality at some time in the future? Ok man whatever.","time":1777960564,"type":"comment"},{"by":"zimbatm","id":48013836,"parent":48011184,"text":"Is there actual evidence coming from the Bun project itself?
Otherwise it's just FUD.","time":1777923300,"type":"comment"},{"by":"reactordev","id":48012750,"parent":48011184,"text":"Just look at the "new" documentation. It's full on AI slop.","time":1777919027,"type":"comment"},{"by":"neoden","id":48012047,"parent":48011184,"text":"what a nice way to write an article!","time":1777916317,"type":"comment"},{"by":"cute_boi","id":48011916,"kids":[48012133],"parent":48011184,"text":"I used to be a fan of Bun, but the way it keeps adding bloat makes me seriously doubt its future. Also, it seems like they are doing a lot of vibe coding without taking enough time, which raises other questions.
Node.js is also more stable, and it has started supporting TypeScript out of the box. I don’t think Bun will have many advantages after Node 26.","time":1777915817,"type":"comment"},{"by":"concretereturns","id":48015527,"parent":48011184,"text":"test","time":1777931732,"type":"comment"},{"by":"kk_mors","dead":true,"id":48016271,"parent":48011184,"text":"[dead]","time":1777937087,"type":"comment"},{"by":"TheSamFischer","dead":true,"id":48012705,"parent":48011184,"text":"[dead]","time":1777918866,"type":"comment"},{"by":"frankfrank13","id":48013455,"parent":48011184,"text":"TLDR;
> Claude Code appears to be enshittifying. So now I have to worry that Bun could enshittify too","time":1777921712,"type":"comment"},{"by":"keybored","id":48015520,"parent":48011184,"text":"tl;dr: I have concerns. Not because Bun is bad. Bun is great. It is not bad. But Claude was good. And now it is bad. Bun is owned by Anthropic. Transitive property. Maybe. I hope I’m wrong.","time":1777931673,"type":"comment"},{"by":"the__alchemist","id":48011956,"parent":48011184,"text":"Look at them! They're like loaves of bread that hop.","time":1777915927,"type":"comment"}]},{"by":"gyomu","descendants":47,"id":48016534,"kids":[48019218,48017829,48018971,48018486,48018163,48017658,48017638,48017912,48018605],"score":307,"time":1777939741,"title":"Y Combinator's Stake in OpenAI (0.6%?)","type":"story","url":"https://daringfireball.net/2026/05/y_combinators_stake_in_openai","comments":[{"by":"bottlepalm","id":48019218,"parent":48016534,"text":"How much money did Y Combinator invest to get that 0.6% stake? I hope it was more than zero. Funny how in 2019 they just start doling out shares in a previously shareless entity.","time":1777966486,"type":"comment"},{"by":"rvz","id":48017829,"kids":[48019482,48018992,48019060,48017885,48018636,48018683,48018818,48018785],"parent":48016534,"text":"Greg Brockman (President of OpenAI) also said that OpenAI is around 80% close to achieving "AGI", but it was disclosed that his stake in OpenAI is worth around 30BN.
So what does the true definition of "AGI" actually mean? It depends on who you ask.
It appears to many to mean "A Great IPO" or "A Gigantic IPO" at this point rather than "Artificial General Intelligence" which has been clearly hijacked to mean something else.","time":1777952797,"type":"comment"},{"by":"keybored","id":48018971,"kids":[48019563],"parent":48016534,"text":"News at Y Combinator used to be my preferred reading diversion: reading interesting technical stories, debates on political topics, learning things, my comfort food of the same topics repeating the same arguments over the span of a decade. Now it’s that but also 65% AI doomscrolling.","time":1777964081,"type":"comment"},{"by":"globalnode","id":48018486,"kids":[48018623,48019200],"parent":48016534,"text":"i always thought there were two reasons for AI interest on HN.
1. since AI has captured the imagination of capitalists and they think this is the next industrial revolution, they gotta be in it to win it. combined with the fact that i believe most people here are wealthy or at least aspirationally so, that explained half of it.
2. the other half is that AI as a tech is interesting from a mathematical and compsci point of view, tho certainly not interesting enough to justify the proportion of topics about it here.
i guess i should add a 3rd reason.
3. ycomb has a financial stake in spreading the news about how wonderful this tech is!
lolol","time":1777959488,"type":"comment"},{"by":"FergusArgyll","id":48018163,"kids":[48019332,48018989],"parent":48016534,"text":""well-known AI expert Gary Marcus"","time":1777956541,"type":"comment"},{"by":"8ig8","id":48017658,"kids":[48017765,48017930,48017722],"parent":48016534,"text":"Seems to be an unusually quiet post for something posted 3 hours ago.","time":1777950804,"type":"comment"},{"by":"oliculipolicula","id":48017638,"kids":[48017825,48017789,48017821,48017782],"parent":48016534,"text":"Despite not publicly moving away from what has been said about Sam*
Jessica Livingston's personal stake in OpenAI is maybe at most 0.1% or less and Paul Graham's, afaik, is 0.
So the bias doesn't seem as large as OP thinks
*https://xcancel.com/paulg/status/2041366050693173393
And "toughness, adaptability, and determination" \n>>> "ambition", frankly","time":1777950529,"type":"comment"},{"by":"wg0","id":48017912,"kids":[48019209,48017986],"parent":48016534,"text":"Nothing unusual. There's not an AI company (mostly AI wrappers) on planet in which Y Combinator hasn't sprinkled their cash already.
I'd go as far to say that it's impossible at this point to form an AI company without YCombinator not investing in it.","time":1777953768,"type":"comment"},{"by":"geuis","id":48018605,"kids":[48018947],"parent":48016534,"text":"Could someone (non-AI) summarize this? I'm sorry but I just literally don't have time to even read long posts from very reputable sources. I know I need the info but time just isn't there in my life right now.","time":1777960645,"type":"comment"}]},{"by":"wowi42","descendants":89,"id":48008083,"kids":[48008084,48008812,48011503,48008544,48009134,48009158,48018180,48008731,48009301,48011073,48012592,48010860,48010812,48008903,48016269,48009609,48008910,48012689,48008451,48008610,48017679,48009923,48009892,48010914,48009977,48015062,48008936],"score":271,"time":1777899226,"title":"PyInfra 3.8.0","type":"story","url":"https://github.com/pyinfra-dev/pyinfra/releases/tag/v3.8.0","comments":[{"by":"wowi42","id":48008084,"kids":[48013196,48011743,48011227,48010049,48014582,48011196],"parent":48008083,"text":"Disclosure: PyInfra core contributor here.
We just shipped 3.8.0.
PyInfra is an agentless infrastructure automation tool. Same job description as Ansible, Salt, Chef. SSH into hosts, describe desired state, it diffs and converges. No agent, no central server, no daemon.
The difference: your "playbook" is just Python. Not Python cosplaying as YAML. Not Jinja smuggled inside YAML inside a Helm chart inside a Kustomize overlay. Actual Python:
from pyinfra.operations import apt, files, server\n\n apt.packages(packages=["nginx"], update=True)\n files.template(src="nginx.conf.j2", dest="/etc/nginx/nginx.conf")\n server.service(service="nginx", running=True, enabled=True)\nAbout YAML. Wonderful format. For about eleven minutes. Then someone needs an `if`, and you have `{% if %}` inside a string inside a list inside a map. Then someone types `no` as a country code for Norway and it ships to prod as `False`. Then someone indents with a tab and the parser dies without saying where. Congratulations, you reinvented a programming language. Badly. The honest move is to admit you wanted code, then write code.
PyInfra skips the eleven good minutes and goes straight to code.
Release notes in the link. Happy to answer questions.
Infrastructure as Code, not infrastructure as YAML.","time":1777899226,"type":"comment"},{"by":"ssddanbrown","id":48008812,"kids":[48009223],"parent":48008083,"text":"I've been using PyInfra for a while, albeit just for simple automation (Updating systems, checking certain stats) and I'm a big fan. Compared to Ansible, I found the docs, syntax and usage patterns much easier to get on with. Might just be a preference thing, but I always had trouble going through the Ansible docs.
Ran into some bugs, like one machine that seems to cause errors and mess up the output on restart, although that looks like it might have been addressed in this release.
If it helps, I put together a video when initially exploring PyInfra: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-_0RiFnKEs","time":1777902856,"type":"comment"},{"by":"Fizzadar","id":48011503,"parent":48008083,"text":"Pyinfra creator here - thank you so much for all the kind words, really means a lot to myself and the other maintainers, feeling the love.","time":1777914213,"type":"comment"},{"by":"V__","id":48008544,"kids":[48008835,48008869,48009706,48008605,48010188],"parent":48008083,"text":"Has anyone used this and ansible and is able to give a short comparison with likes and dislikes?","time":1777901503,"type":"comment"},{"by":"coreylane","id":48009134,"parent":48008083,"text":"I used ansible for years and pyinfra is very approachable since it has similar concepts, like inventories, common operations like files.put, server.shell, loving it so far, and it is quite fast","time":1777904401,"type":"comment"},{"by":"subhobroto","id":48009158,"kids":[48010144,48017521,48010759],"parent":48008083,"text":"Congrats on shipping 3.8.0!
If you're a software engineer who wants to setup and maintain infrastructure, give PyInfra and Pulumi a go!
Huge fan of PyInfra. For my homelab, I use Pulumi with Python and PyInfra to build fully declarative intent based infrastructure. You can use actual software engineering principles like composition, inheritance, DI to setup and wire your infrastructure and services. One of the benefits of this is your infrastructure and services are now self documenting (have them write out a mermaid diagram!) and easily testable using pytest (from cheap unit tests to extensive integration tests (I use Incus)).
Instead of Pulumi, I originally used Terraform CDK with Python before CDK got IBM'd. The migration to Pulumi was refreshingly painless. My original reason for not choosing Pulumi was the crippled state of the open source, self hosted backend support a decade ago but it looks like that is now way more mature and less crippled.
PyInfra is a breath of fresh air compared to Ansible - its not just fast, it's more Pythonic, so IDE features actually work, readable, maintainable, debuggable. I call it infrastructure for software engineers.
If anyone wants to use an AI agent to try out PyInfra - One issue I've faced is that PyInfra was rearchitected in v2 (and some more in v3?) but what belongs in v1 vs v2 vs v3 isn't very clear, so an AI agent could spend a lot of time writing v1 code, having it fail and iterate to v2 and then to v3.
The official site uses the version in the URL as the namespace but it seems like the SOTA AI agents don't pay much attention to that.
Maybe writing a llms.txt for PyInfra v2, or v3 would be an extremely useful task to help with onboarding newcomers?
---
The original post by the OP https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=wowi42:
Disclosure: PyInfra core contributor here.\nWe just shipped 3.8.0.
PyInfra is an agentless infrastructure automation tool. Same job description as Ansible, Salt, Chef. SSH into hosts, describe desired state, it diffs and converges. No agent, no central server, no daemon.
The difference: your "playbook" is just Python. Not Python cosplaying as YAML. Not Jinja smuggled inside YAML inside a Helm chart inside a Kustomize overlay. Actual Python:
from pyinfra.operations import apt, files, server\n\n apt.packages(packages=["nginx"], update=True)\n files.template(src="nginx.conf.j2", dest="/etc/nginx/nginx.conf")\n server.service(service="nginx", running=True, enabled=True)PyInfra skips the eleven good minutes and goes straight to code.
Release notes in the link. Happy to answer questions.
Infrastructure as Code, not infrastructure as YAML.","time":1777904515,"type":"comment"},{"by":"rumpelstiel","id":48018180,"parent":48008083,"text":"Thank you for this, im using it in combo with consul to fetch the inventory and labels. So easy to setup and maintain. But im heavily using python anyway, so writing my own classes, connectors was kinda.. free.","time":1777956740,"type":"comment"},{"by":"hathym","id":48008731,"parent":48008083,"text":"i tried ansible before and hated it, this idea is genius.","time":1777902558,"type":"comment"},{"by":"eb0la","id":48009301,"kids":[48009643],"parent":48008083,"text":"This reminds me of Nortel Command Console back in 2000-2005!
I worked for a telco company that had a lot of Nortel Passport devices (does anyone know what Frame Relay is?).\nWe started changing the network from Nortel to Cisco.\nCisco used telnet (later SSH), but Nortel people were extremelly reluctant to switch.
Turns out the Nortel network managment system (nortel nms) had a very interesting feature: you could open the command console to connect to one of the passport devices... or you could connect to a device group (or all the network) and run the same command in all devices.
This was great for auditing which version had every single device in the network... or for changing access-lists globally.","time":1777905222,"type":"comment"},{"by":"js2","id":48011073,"parent":48008083,"text":"I'm glad to see PyInfra is still under active development. I don't currently use PyInfra, but I previously used it for a couple years to manage a build farm of about 100 Mac Pros. Those machine had previously been partially managed by Chef to ill effect.
I found PyInfra to be a great tool for the job at hand. Even though it didn't have many of the operations I needed, I found it easy to write new operations specific to macOS management tasks.
I recently looked at it again to help build EC2 Mac AMIs in combination with Packer, but I ended up with pydoit this time instead.","time":1777912748,"type":"comment"},{"by":"sureglymop","id":48012592,"parent":48008083,"text":"What I really want is something like either ansible or this that:
- Doesn't unnecessarily send code over the network.
- Has some sort of "execution optimizer".
Think for example a query planner/optimizer of a db. Or, as a good example, the query planner of the polars framework as opposed to how it works in pandas.
If I do a for loop and each loop iteration copies a file into the same dir, the optimizer should catch that and send over one compressed tar file.","time":1777918364,"type":"comment"},{"by":"mkobit","id":48010860,"parent":48008083,"text":"I have started to adapt https://testinfra.readthedocs.io/en/latest/, which looks similar in style to this from the verification side. Having previously used Salt, Ansible, and Chef at other companies, this looks great from a UX perspective compared to those other tools.","time":1777911946,"type":"comment"},{"by":"bityard","id":48010812,"parent":48008083,"text":"Is there anything like Ansible Tower or Semaphore for PyInfra? Or some more generic tool that would work similarly?
I could likely vibecode something up if I had to, but I'm interested in a job orchestration system that can run things like upgrades, scheduled backups, ideally with a nice dashboard showing successful/failed jobs.","time":1777911814,"type":"comment"},{"by":"appplication","id":48008903,"kids":[48009186],"parent":48008083,"text":"The is cool, thank you for sharing. I was just thinking about onboarding to ansible since I’ve just been following a manual checklist of commands for my remote server but based on positive feedback here I’ll probs oh give this a shot. Only downside is I imagine LLMs are probably a little more proficient at ansible just due to volume of training data.","time":1777903241,"type":"comment"},{"by":"firesteelrain","id":48016269,"parent":48008083,"text":"We created something similar to PyInfra at work back in 2017. I wonder if we would have used it back then if it existed.","time":1777937081,"type":"comment"},{"by":"bestony","id":48009609,"parent":48008083,"text":"This looks great! pyinfra will integrate better with my other code, and installing it with uv fits my workflow better. Thanks for the post. I'll give it a try. I think some of my Caprover initialization tasks could also be handled by pyinfra.","time":1777906961,"type":"comment"},{"by":"odie5533","id":48008910,"kids":[48008994],"parent":48008083,"text":"Does it have an equivalent to konstruktoid's hardening Ansible playbook?","time":1777903280,"type":"comment"},{"by":"reddit_clone","id":48012689,"parent":48008083,"text":"Does this abstract over the package management systems (apt, yum , apk etc.)?\nOr do we still have to write distro specific install commands?","time":1777918784,"type":"comment"},{"by":"mark_l_watson","id":48008451,"kids":[48008513],"parent":48008083,"text":"That would have been very useful to me, before I retired! That said, I only run the Hermes Agent on leased VPSs and PyInfra might be a cool and easy to access Hermes - I need to think about that.","time":1777901108,"type":"comment"},{"by":"ktm5j","id":48008610,"kids":[48008632,48009598],"parent":48008083,"text":"This seems cool, I'd particularly be interested if their 10x faster than Ansible claims pan out. Has anyone here used PyInfra? If so what's your experience been like?","time":1777901887,"type":"comment"},{"by":"jlintz","id":48017679,"parent":48008083,"text":"nice project, reminds me a lot of Fabric but a bit more refined","time":1777951105,"type":"comment"},{"by":"hacker161","id":48009923,"parent":48008083,"text":"See lots of comparisons to Ansible but Chef/puppet (both of which have agent-less modes) in Python instead of Ruby is what immediately came to mind. I guess Salt as well technically.","time":1777908556,"type":"comment"},{"by":"sgarland","id":48009892,"kids":[48011538,48013186],"parent":48008083,"text":"Never heard of this before. In looking through docs, honestly it looks like Ansible, but for people who don’t know Ansible, and with way more footguns. The fact that you can import any existing Python library means you’re now relying on those libraries to not introduce bugs, or throw an exception in the middle of an operation, etc.
I despise YAML, but I can appreciate that it makes it harder to introduce imperative logic, and it forces you to stay on the paved path - which is very well-tested.","time":1777908415,"type":"comment"},{"by":"benatkin","id":48010914,"parent":48008083,"text":"The amount of repetition of @override seems unpythonic to me, but maybe that's python being unpythonic.
https://github.com/pyinfra-dev/pyinfra/blob/3.x/src/pyinfra/...","time":1777912150,"type":"comment"},{"by":"pbronez","id":48009977,"kids":[48010412],"parent":48008083,"text":"How does this compare to Salt Stack?
“Built on Python, Salt is an event-driven automation tool and framework to deploy, configure, and manage complex IT systems. Use Salt to automate common infrastructure administration tasks and ensure that all the components of your infrastructure are operating in a consistent desired state.”
https://docs.saltproject.io/en/latest/topics/about_salt_proj...","time":1777908741,"type":"comment"},{"by":"ohdeardear","dead":true,"id":48015062,"parent":48008083,"text":"[dead]","time":1777929088,"type":"comment"},{"by":"gandreani","id":48008936,"kids":[48008955],"parent":48008083,"text":"There's a video!
I can't get over the fact of how suspicious he looks while doing it. And doesn't even cover his face. Crazyness
https://x.com/porqueTTarg/status/2047652413306277970\nhttps://xcancel.com/porqueTTarg/status/2047652413306277970","time":1777903389,"type":"comment"}]}]}